IDPA/CDPA Whinning and #####ing

Duel Memberships between IDPA and CDP.

There is no beef between the IDPA and CDP members. I have many good friends that are CDP members. You are welcome to become an IDPA member and retain your CDP membership as well. We ask that you reserve some loyalty to us with regard to internal matters, however this is not the Secret Service and cloak and dagger stuff is not a big problem. On that note, one IDPA member whom we had been watching for some time has been found out. That member has disgraced himself as a competitor and friend and will soon have his IDPA membership pulled for anti American and Anti IDPA statements before many witnesses. This is unfortunate, however, we will not tolerate this type of behavior by anyone, especially in a public forum and during live firing.


Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
 
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These seem to be the burning issues, so I hope I have shed some light on this for you. IDPA would be happy to coexist with CDP, however we will not stand by and allow your leadership, to make false or misleading statements without rebuttal. I like many of you am sorry that we all can not get along, however, I can not and could not remain an active member of CDP with the information I was privy to during its formation. I know and understand that a lot of you are members of CDP by virtue of locale and circumstance, and I wish you well. I have no beef with the CDP shooter, only the the man and supporting organization at the top. If not for this forum, no-one would even be aware of that, but having gone down both roads and knowing what I know, all I can say is shame on you Dave.


Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
 
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CQC Question,


For those of you going to the US IDPA Nationals this Sep, the Blackhawk CQC holster with the paddle is legal and accepted. I have this information right from IDPA HQ and intend on using mine while there.


Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
 
Steve and I are friends (he paid me today - $20 to say that):D :wave: and he does tell the truth and he will be blunt.:cool:

I have a suggestion that you don't ask him a question that you don't really want to know the answer too.:bangHead:

I want you to keep it civil and no mud slinging that you cannot prove anywhere.

He knows that I will shut this thread down if it happens. We have discussed this and friend or no friend it will happen.:evil:

Let loose with your questions - play nice.:rockOn:
 
I can't believe I waded through this crap a second time.

I took the second CDPA course offered by Dave Burke in June of 2005. At that time, Dave CLEARLY indicated that what CSSA and he were trying to do was get some momentum going in a Canadian version of IPDA, (Canadian only in that accommodations were needed for the Canadian realities in regard to handguns). He CLEARLY indicated at that time that they were going with the IPDA rule set, but that they were still working out the details between the two orgs as to how a league would be structured due to the different legal situations in the two countries.
Dave never implied or stated that this was IPDA - he stated that they were trying to put together a cohesive version of IPDA or IPDA-like sport for Canada and use CSSA's base to establish a national presence in an "IPDA" shooting sport that CSSA could promote, and if their negotiations came to fruition, would be "IPDA Canada". The intent was bring an action sport to clubs across Canada that was less intensive than IPSC, and thereby provide a structure for clubs nationally to promote a popular "CFO acceptable" shooting discipline to encourage participation and build a bigger base of mildly competitive shooters. All of this driven by a perceived need to to get sport shooting events established, especially with restricted firearms, in order to preserve their availability under increasing pressure to ban them.

While there were (as has been indicated) a very few clubs affiliated with IPDA in the US, there was no ACTIVE national promotion going on to broaden the base. CSSA felt they could develop and promote a Canadian league in order to foster better participation in handgun sports, in part to cultivate an image different from the typical canadian view of handguns as undesirable lethal weapons.

Rather than the persistent arrogant trashing of Dave and CSSA and CDP by the "real dealers", some of you should be thanking him and CSSA for at least making an effort to get something going, even if they couldn't put it together the way they had hoped. At the very least, they managed to light a big enough fire under some of your asses to actually get a formal US sanctioned IPDA presence with some small actual visibility going in Canada. To date, CSSA has been more successful than IPDA Canada in promoting a DPA league for fun, and hopefully both orgs can co-exist.

The IPDA Canada bunch needs to stop their blustering and puffing about - you're driving away more participants then you are attracting at the moment. CDP uses the IPDA rule SET (mostly) currently, not the rule BOOK. Get over it, its not illegal to do so.

With regard to CSSA and CFOs, as has been noted, CSSA has to play little mind games with each of them, although it looks like the RCMP is coalescing them into one Borg. In ONT, the CFO told CSSA a few years ago - come up with a club level safety course for handguns or else. The else being that if CSSA didn't do it, the CFO would impose their own. The fighting over it was long and ugly and the legalities were challenged. Provincial/national oversight of our gun sports by our associations will be a regulated reality in Canada just like it is in so many other areas of life, because governments don't want the cost.

Either get on board with the national and provincial orgs and promote co-operation or be prepared to spend most of your time tilting at political windmills directly, for the relatively short time you'll be able to enjoy any restricted firearm sport.
 
"Provincial/national oversight of our gun sports by our associations will be a regulated reality in Canada just like it is in so many other areas of life, because governments don't want the cost."

Horse Puckey! The Civil Servants in this country don't run Canada, elected individuals do. The so called national organizations will promote this nonsense for one reason and one reason only and that is power and legitimacy.

With the debacle of the cost of the Gun Registry hanging over their heads let the Civil Servants try to justify paying for a "National Holster Course". To my knowledge there have been no shooting deaths either in IPSC or IDPA worldwide so they can hardly justify spending tax payers money on the pretext of saving lives.

It is all about power. The only victims here will be the citizens who will have yet another set of rules foistered on them. I should add and another expense.

If the elected officials won't fund the cost of such courses there won't be any UNLESS our "National" organizations fall into line and agree to run it - see above.

Oh I know, "If it saves just one life":bangHead:

It is time gun owners and our so called "National" organizations drew some pretty deep lines in the sand and simply said enough is enough. There is no difference in bleeding to death slowly or quickly the end result is the same.

Take Care

Bob
 
You live in your head so far from the reality in Canada it boggles the mind.

A much needed clarification about the CSSA CDP "holster course": It isn't. Its a basic CDP/IDPA oriented basic techniques/skills/rules drill set that includes holster familiarization as part of the course.
 
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"You live in your head so far from the reality in Canada it boggles the mind."

Sorry I forgot Ontario is Canada.

Let the Civil Servants design a holster course and let them administer it. Tough to look at a camel and call it a race horse.

Do you really think any government in Canada is going to outlaw IPSC.IDPA, PPC or SASS? That is what you are implying.

Power goes to those who take it and is lost by those who give it away.

Take Care

Bob
 
I believe the last straw for me was when ...

We spent a full day out at the range with 4 of the elderly local CDPA members, we coached, tutored and helped these fine gentlemen on shooting skills and classifiers COF's. We did this as members of our club and we would do the same for anyone else... for free.

Shortly there after Dave contacted us and demanded that we go back and charge these gentlemen $50.00 each and send all the money to him:mad:

I guess Dave figures that all training has a cost, and all cost go to him. That was a great way to promote the sport... and I am sure we are not the only ones who have had this type of situation.

I have heard of pyramid schemes... but this reeks of a telephone pole scheme... we do all the work and pump the money straight up the pole.

I wish him well in his endevors.
 
Hi Skip,

I am not exactly sure when the date of my CDP Instructor Course was, as the CSSA certificate which was misprinted with the logo upside down (international symbol of distress???) has no date that is readable, but I believe it was April 2006. It was the large course that was run in Ajax. You said your course was in 2005, several people may want to jump in here to confirm that, in no uncertain terms, Dave Burke consistently elaborated the point that CDP was affiliated with IDPA, and he was considering severing ties. Now that I am fully involved with IDPA, and after several conversations with my HQ, I know this information to be incorrect. On that course, we were told that CDPA as it was known as then, had an office in Toronto, that was not fully functioning yet, but until it was up and running all proceeds from IDPA could go through Dave Burke. A quick check with the Better Business Bureau, and the municipality office proved that no such office existed. When we (several other contributers to this thread) confronted Dave about this he took us aside and asked us if we would be willing to serve on the CDPA Board of Directors. The final straw for me with CDP was an incident that occurred several weeks after the course where myself, and a couple of others had a casual skills and drills day on the range, focused on some new CDPA members, attempting to bring them up to a safe level of shooting competency. When Dave found out about this he became furious, emailing me suggesting I was not towing the CDP line and that those members should be charged for the training. This was the final straw for me, and that is when I began to pursue IDPA.
As you have stated, perhaps Dave is responsible for generating interest in DPA style shooting in Canada, and its funny you mentioned that because I stated the same thing to IDPA HQ during a telecom, in Dave's defense.
I have read some of your threads in the past and, because you seem to be quite skilled with the ability to get your point across in writing, I was surprised that you decided to lower the tone of the post you submitted to the "we are better than you are" mentality of stating such things as Dave Burke and CSSA are more successful than IDPA in promoting the sport, where are these statistics of yours coming from, or are they just part of the ongoing CDP misinformation campaign.
I would caution everyone to take an objective look at the merits of the respective organizations and to make an informed decision, from this, they can formulate their own opinions. We live in a free and democratic society where everyone has free will to decide which organization they choose to affiliate with and to not fall victim to cult minded propaganda.
However, if you insist on bringing up these issues, I have an ethical and moral obligation to disppell any untruths with respect to IDPA. We at IDPA do not care what other organizations do, at least at the shooter level, but I implore others to refrain from dragging us into and comparing us to their respective organizations.


Steve Shirley
IDPA Area Coordinator for Canada
 
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Canuck44 said:
"You live in your head so far from the reality in Canada it boggles the mind."

Sorry I forgot Ontario is Canada.

Let the Civil Servants design a holster course and let them administer it. Tough to look at a camel and call it a race horse.

Do you really think any government in Canada is going to outlaw IPSC.IDPA, PPC or SASS? That is what you are implying.

Power goes to those who take it and is lost by those who give it away.

Take Care

Bob
Click to expand...


You appear to be profoundly ignorant of how governments work. If the Government of Canada decides to outlaw IPSC IDPA, PPC or SASS in Canada, they will, and good luck to you and your wallet getting them back. You may not live long enough to go through enough elections to reverse the law. The bureaucracy of the government in any system IS the government. The legislature is exactly that, and while it formulates law and policy, it is the bureaucracy that interprets and administers it all, often irrespective of what either the court or the legislature says. Good luck in your parallel universe.
 
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