Is Herters 303 British brass better than the other common types of boxer 303 brass?

steelgray

Regular
Rating - 100%
37   0   0
I hate the tenancy of 303 British brass to develop that nasty shiny ring about 3/16 from the rim - then abrumptly die of head separation.

I've actually seen reloaded rounds suffer this kind of head separation as a result of nothing more stressful that a ride through my case tumbler!

Everybody tries to blame it one the gun - saying "you've got a headspacing problem", but I think most people actually realize that common 303 British brass is basically made to fail - because the head of the case transitions abruptly to a paper-thin sidewall, creating an obvious weak stressed area.

Cases of other calibers (i.e., medium pressure rounds like 308 Win, 8x57, etc.) have a meaningful web in this transition zone - which is obviously lacking in most 303 British cases.

Is Herters 303 British brass any better than the other common types of boxer brass? Does their design avoid creating this weak spot?
 
I have no experience with reloading .303 British first off.
Second the components availability in Canada is slim and just slightly above none available.
Buy factory and enjoy it .
Just my observations and yes, I know ammo is North of $35.00 for 20 rounds.
Rob
 
Case head separation happen because of excessive headspace and overly large chamber. Period. Herter is a very old distributor and I doupt the where making brass, but they stamped their own home brand. Not just brass, dies, reloading tools, clothes also. Think outdoor stores.

Remember military rifle were not build with the reloader in mind. They were made to function in the worse conditions. Check Canadian made Dominion .303 case and they are in specs and as thick case head. Case life in military rifle is often reduced to few firing 5-6 maybe.

Herter is a US brand that was existing in the 30’s to 80’s. (Cabelas using the name in late 70-80’s) They sold civilian brass not military brass.( like Lake City brass compared to Federal commercial brass) usually military case have thicker case, less capacity but loaded to higher pressure.( general)

The British invented and used the .303 round extensively in every war theater in the World. I am sure you can find all kind of old brass since that caliber was put in service in 1888. I doupt the 1888 manufacturing brass is or was on par with WW2 or later brass.

In any case, I use modern case, once fired or new case. Not because it is a old military rifle, that it does not need quality brass for function and safety.
 
Last edited:
Older Herters 303 brass was made to British/European specs as opposed to USA specs .They measured .453 to .455 on the head while Fed. or Win. can be as small as .447/.448. that difference in size is a huge help if you have a larger chamber in your rifle. I do not know if Herters is currently selling 303 brass, or what size it might be now if they are. .....catnip.
 
I have no experience with reloading .303 British first off.
Second the components availability in Canada is slim and just slightly above none available.
Buy factory and enjoy it .
Just my observations and yes, I know ammo is North of $35.00 for 20 rounds.
Rob

LOL

First off, 303 Brit cases absolutely ARE available, both used and new. Used ones can be had for a reasonable price. New ones are a bit spendy.

IF 303 Brit ammo could be found for $35 a box, that would be the best price in the entire country by a long way. Most factory 303 ammo is running $3 to $4 a round. So a box will be in the $60 to $80 range.
 
I had heard indications of and ended up reading an old Waters' article on loading the 303 and it seems that 30-40 Krag brass is slightly larger at the web and possibly thicker / stronger. The cases just need to be run through a 303 sizer and then trimmed to length in order to work in a 303 Brit chamber. The fly in this ointment is that 30-40 Krag cases are considerably more expensive than new 303 cases.
 
Old Herter's brass was made by Norma.
George L. Herter went bankrupt in 1981.
The Herter's brand is now owned by Cabela's/BassPro.
It would be helpful to know exactly what brass is under discussion.
 
Older Herters 303 brass was made to British/European specs as opposed to USA specs .They measured .453 to .455 on the head while Fed. or Win. can be as small as .447/.448. that difference in size is a huge help if you have a larger chamber in your rifle. I do not know if Herters is currently selling 303 brass, or what size it might be now if they are. .....catnip.

Herter folded in 1980 and right to the name was purchased by Cabelas. Their brass like all other products they sold were made by who know who.
It was a sporting good store, not a manufacturer of anything. Herter name is still used by Cabelas.

The British .303 round was used in rifle and numerous machine guns, be land, sea and air. Their brass must be as good as any other military brass. All Commonwealth countries used the .303 and most manufactured their military ammo. Collecting those must be crazy.

Herter headstamp case are made by an unknown manufacturer of civilian brass. Some later box show’ made in Sweden’. That rule out S&B in the late offering, but Herter was in business for 50 years about, they may have changed suppliers a few time in that time period.
 
Last edited:
OP, you state:

´´ I've actually seen reloaded rounds suffer this kind of head separation as a result of nothing more stressful that a ride through my case tumbler!´´

Your tumbler does not cause head separation, it just clean the case so you can see it more readily. Only firing can cause that by stretching the case.
 
LOL

First off, 303 Brit cases absolutely ARE available, both used and new. Used ones can be had for a reasonable price. New ones are a bit spendy.

IF 303 Brit ammo could be found for $35 a box, that would be the best price in the entire country by a long way. Most factory 303 ammo is running $3 to $4 a round. So a box will be in the $60 to $80 range.

**Sigh**
 
Old Herter's brass was made by Norma.
George L. Herter went bankrupt in 1981.
The Herter's brand is now owned by Cabela's/BassPro.
It would be helpful to know exactly what brass is under discussion.

I thank you for this . It is my understanding as well that the OLD Herters brass was from Norma .I realize that Herters was a retailer only,but did not know that Cabelas now owned the brand. Just a heads up... Higginsons did have some of the old brass a while back, I don't know if he has any left now. ....catnip
 
I've already said <Quote> everybody tries to blame it one the gun - saying "you've got a headspacing problem", but I think most people actually realize that common 303 British brass is basically made to fail - because the head of the case transitions abruptly to a paper-thin sidewall, creating an obvious weak stressed area.

Since at least one poster doesn't get this - and thinks its just some weirdly coincidental headspacing problem - that effects everything that shoots 303 British, let's look at the facts.

If that were true, why is it that nobody is able to set-up their Lee Enfield rifle to keep from creating case head separation failure problems - in spite of how many times they changed the bolt head to correct headspacing?

Why does no other common cartridge fail, in this area, the way that the Lee Enfield/ 303 British combination produces head separation failures.
For example, why is it that Lee Enfields that have been either made or converted in 308 Win don’t have their fired cases suffer from head separation?

Why do Globco Mohawks exhibit exactly the same heads separation failure problem when they are chambered in 303 British and they never exhibit that problem for those Globco Mohawk chambered in 7.62x54R?

Why do P14’s all suffer from the same head separation problem as L-Es - and the P17 has no such problems?

The answer is it's the defective design of the 303 British case itself.

In a properly designed brass case, there is a region inside where the base of the case meets the sidewall. This is called “the web”. This super-important web area is present on the inside of any well-designed modern cartridge and is virtually absent in a 303 British case. This means that the pressure from firing isn’t spread over the rounded internal surface - inside at the web. Rather, the 303 British case INSIDE basically has a flat base that meets a thin sidewall - at a virtual 90-degree intersection - and all the pressure is focused on that one internal corner.

All of the pressure from that area of the case gets focused on that designed-in zone for failure - and the brass gets thinner and thinner – until the head separates from the case body - at exactly that pre-programmed zone for failure.

defective design of 303 British case v3.jpg


The answer is for case manufacturers to add extra thickness at this point – i.e., increasing case thickness in the area where the web should be.

I have heard that Herter’s case - and perhaps others by Privi etc. - have rectified the inherent the design flaw of 303 British brass by adding a legitimate web area to the inside of the case.


Case head separation happen because of excessive headspace and overly large chamber. Period. Herter is a very old distributor and I doupt the where making brass, but they stamped their own home brand. Not just brass, dies, reloading tools, clothes also. Think outdoor stores.

Remember military rifle were not build with the reloader in mind. They were made to function in the worse conditions. Check Canadian made Dominion .303 case and they are in specs and as thick case head. Case life in military rifle is often reduced to few firing 5-6 maybe.

Herter is a US brand that was existing in the 30’s to 80’s. (Cabelas using the name in late 70-80’s) They sold civilian brass not military brass.( like Lake City brass compared to Federal commercial brass) usually military case have thicker case, less capacity but loaded to higher pressure.( general)

The British invented and used the .303 round extensively in every war theater in the World. I am sure you can find all kind of old brass since that caliber was put in service in 1888. I doupt the 1888 manufacturing brass is or was on par with WW2 or later brass.

In any case, I use modern case, once fired or new case. Not because it is a old military rifle, that it does not need quality brass for function and safety.
 
Last edited:
The best commercial brass currently available for 303 is Prvi. It is very similar to WW2 brass, with a proper web. US produced 303 brass is largely crap, because they (or their lawyers) see the 303 as being the same as 30-40, it isn't. 1950's DI is the best brass ever made for 303's. To get decent life from 303 brass there are a couple of things you can do:

1) Segregate brass by the rifle its fired in, do not mix them.
2) Use a Lee collet die to neck size only
3) Down load by about 10% - you'll find better accuracy there anyway, because mil loads are the most accurate load plus approx. 10% in order to eek out every bit of power that they can get while still hitting the target
4) you can mess around with the O-ring thing, I have, and I haven't found it to make a substantial difference

Note: I'm not sure where guys are finding all of these LE rifles with excessive head space such that it causes separation. I've owned 20 or so LE rifles and not one had dangerously excessive head space, even the pre-WW1 rifle was fine and it looked like it served at Gallipoli. I think the issue is that many folks don't actually know how the LE head spaces, use terribly inferior American brass and figure that it's the rifle. DO NOT USE American brass with service loads, frankly it's sh*t.

Lastly, this video is long - but both of these guys run the LE well, the Aussie is a machine with his, and they do discus the head space thing among other largely American invented myths. Remember, the American criticism of the Bren was that it was "too accurate" - and they said that with a straight face!

 
I run my Herters ( Norma made) Winchester, Privi, and Federal brass in my .303 chambered Ruger #3 right up to .308 Winchester specs with a 150 grain Barnes TSX.
I have never seen a case head seperation issue with it in that rifle.
The rifle was chambered by Bill Leeper.
In My Long Branch I can't run them that hot and do not try . I shoot 174 Match Kings in that rifle.
In my father's no.3 I don't run them as hot as the Ruger either, but have not seen case head seperation issues in any of these rifles.
Cat
 
FYI : my daughter buys 20 ga. target loads from Bass Pro under the "Herters" name.
She gives me the hulls to reload. On the side of the case it says "Herters".
The headstamp says "Winchester".
 
My old made in Sweden Herters I got from Higginsons, looks like Metalverken brass, it's good brass. IVI is good 303 brass as well.
I neck size and never had any issues with separation.
 
Back
Top Bottom