lol ... not at all.
M10X Canadian MSRP set
- Thread starter FoxAlpha
- Start date
Really? Then why is IRG so popular up here? Because firearms are inherently cheaper in the US. Especially AK style firearms.
I randomly picked another rifle roughly similarly priced here... the Hk SL8. Just under 2k here... sells for 1450 US... wheres the outrage there?
Bushmsater ACR in the US is roughly 2k... here? $3200.
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Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
It's quite clear that you know mich less about the Canadian firearms industry than you think. Completely different maze of laws to navigate amd completely different market forces than the U.S. If you truly believe the market up here is full of collusion and price fixing, start your own business selling guns, go straight to the manufacturers and purchase in bulk, and undercut everyone here while making your fortune. If you're not going to do this, shut it with the slanderous accusations of collusion and price fixing.
Prices here are higher due to several factors, mainly:
1.Virtually all guns are imported
2.Our dollar is weak
3.Costs are higher here (taxes, labour, transport, etc.)
4.Manufacturers generally charge a premium to distributors for Canadian compliant models. Yes, it sucks, but we are a captive market with few options, and those companies have a responsibility to their shareholders. If it's over priced compared to similar items it won't sell. At this point prices will either drop or the item will disappear from the market.
It's really tiring to constantly hear people complain about things they know little about. If you don't like it, put a few million dollars down and change things.
Because the T97 ended up being garbage and it had a huge jacked up price to start with.
Explain my Vs 58 , Bushmaster ACR and Hk Sl8 price issues. It's not just the M10x... It's everywhere.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
The base model was always around $1k, the rail model was $1200. They sold well initially at those prices, when sales slowed down after a few years, the prices dropped. I did actually explain this in the post you replied to. Point 4 to be exact...
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
ACR DMR U.S. MSRP $2569, @ Wolverine $3455 (US street price closer to $2000)
$2000 × 1.28 = $2560
Not quite the same but sort of close. This is just to buy the gun in the US, importing it and all the headache that goes with that isn't calculated here.
VZ-58
Not comparable as the kit guns like the 858 are no longer being imported. When they were common about 10 years ago, they were $700. The CSA's are all new mfg, so not comparable to US ones manifactured on new receivers from surplus parts.
SL8's are comparable in price too:
$1422 USD (Buds, MSRP is higher)
$2099 CAD (Wolverine)
$1422 × 1.28 = $1820
Again, the $2100 from Wolvering includes the cost to import the rifle and all the other costs. We also get the double stack version. The reason this is closer than the ACR is in the US, the ACR is domestically produced (always cheaper), while the SL8 is an import (just like for us).
With these guns so far, we are looking at about 15-20% more for firearms in Canada when exchange rates are taken in to account. This is fairly consistent across the board, with a few exceptions. The tacticool rifles are generally on the higher end due to the niche market and small import numbers (the ACR falls in to this category).
If you actually run the numbers, clear and consistent patterns emerge. The fact exists that imported items cost more, and 99% of our guns are imported. The reverse exists in the U.S.
Yes, manufacturers (Robinson Arms, M+M, etc.) do charge a premium for Canadian models, which sucks, but it beats not having Canadian models!
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Finally, some more common sense.
Agreed, Canadians have to pay a premium.
As noted above, we can accept a REASONABLE margin, as most consumers realize some other factors are involved...exchange rate, extra imposed taxes and costs, etc..
Good businesses, try not to gouge the consumer, and there are many good vendors here on CGN that are fair and do the best they can.
Some businesses price gouge.
Even our own Canadian business screw us.
Look at Bombardier, even with exchange rate, it is cheaper to buy a Bombardier snow machine in the US.
If a Canadian buys a Bombardier in the US, and brings it back to Canada, Bombardier voids the warranty.
So we subsidize Bombardier with our tax dollars, and that is how they respond (this was a big topic on the snow machine boards...I haven't kept up on it)
Anyways, I got a little off topic cause I'm angry about all the big money cheats out there,..... but the point was it M&M got greedy.
As noted above, we can accept a REASONABLE margin, as most consumers realize some other factors are involved...exchange rate, extra imposed taxes and costs, etc..
Good businesses, try not to gouge the consumer, and there are many good vendors here on CGN that are fair and do the best they can.
Some businesses price gouge.
Even our own Canadian business screw us.
Look at Bombardier, even with exchange rate, it is cheaper to buy a Bombardier snow machine in the US.
If a Canadian buys a Bombardier in the US, and brings it back to Canada, Bombardier voids the warranty.
So we subsidize Bombardier with our tax dollars, and that is how they respond (this was a big topic on the snow machine boards...I haven't kept up on it)
Anyways, I got a little off topic cause I'm angry about all the big money cheats out there,..... but the point was it M&M got greedy.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
When you're buying a million snow machines you can negotiate better prices. When you can make a profit on much lower margins, you can sell for even less. As I said, market forces. Bombardier does that to protect their Canadian distribution and warranty network. You can't just compare the retail price and conclude from that alone that we're getting screwed. You need to take account of all the factors involved, which quite frankly the layman (people such as yourself) is completely oblivious to. The really unreasonable part is to expect the same warranty service on something you didn't buy in this country.
Calling any of these companies greedy is really quite an arrogant and naive comment to make. They are in the business to make money. If you don't like how they conduct their business, don't buy their products. If you think they have a get rich quick scheme going on, shell out a few million dollars and start your own company, develop a better mouse trap, and undercut them. If that sounds like a big investment and a lot of work, it is. Do it or quit whining.
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Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
I won't disagree with that.
NS as survived for years playing the long game when it comes to retail sales of firearms. Hopefully they learned something recently when finally HK and Steyr pulled the plug on them as a distributor.
But I doubt it
I was reading the other day about the Swiss Arms/VZ58 prohib fiasco again...only 1500-1800 Swiss Arms sold in Canada in what, 10-15 years they were available?
Granted they were priced $3000+ but they are pretty awesome rifles. I doubt NS would sit on the M10 for 10 years, and no doubt Mickey Mouse went in for a ridiculously large order to secure "exclusivity".
My guess is that at $2000 they might sell 15-20 rifles to the guys that really wanted one from early in the game and after that it will just be the odd sucker that doesn't have a problem dropping $2k on a "I wonder what this rifle is like" whim. Most people that buy them probably won't even be aware of what has happened getting these to market though.
As you point out, if they could only sell 1500ish Swiss Arms in ten years which is a well respected rifle known for it's long history of quality and military use how many of these do you think they'll sell at $2000 for a x39 bullet hose from an unknown manufacturer with no history and no other items in their catalog. They're obviously failing in the US or they wouldn't be going out of their way to modify their rifle so they can supplement their poor domestic sales with our money so for all we know these guys could be out of business by this time next year which would leave anyone with one of these rifles with no parts or warranty support.
Calling it a DMR is just another marketing ploy to sucker in the gullible leading to more disappointment when their new rifle shoots the same as an SKS with surplus. I love the term match grade and DMR when looking at a x39 semi auto. It's amusing and a little sad that people actually believe that these will produce 1 moa groups.
In my opinion, based solely on what we have available to us on the internet these were pushing it at $1500 but if the reports from the first batch of guys that got them was positive I might have been interested in giving one a try but at $2000 I can buy a lot of different x39 NR semi's and still have enough cash left over for a couple crates of ammo.
I jumped in on the Type-81, probably not as nice as an M10x but for half the money as long as it's reliable I'll be satisfied. I don't buy x39 for accuracy, it's for fun making noise, making holes in things, and not having to pick up brass. I have plenty of other rifles that are for shooting accurately.
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Exactly, I don't care what they call it or what they claim, these rifles will not be printing 1 inch groups at 100 yards. The only way it's even remotely possible is if someone handloaded for one and even then I think it would be a stretch so calling it a DMR is just silly. The videos I've watched so far show it around 4 moa which is just fine as far as I'm concerned considering the type of rifle and the ammo that it will be using. Honestly, why would anyone buy a semi auto x39 and expect incredible accuracy? You buy rifles in x39 because you either like shooting really cheap centerfire or because you like red rifles or some combination of the two, buying a x39 for accuracy is like buying a Pontiac Sunfire and trying to enter 24hr LeMans, all the wrong tools for the job at hand.
