[B said:Wendell[/B];17281244]Wow! 2200 rounds, huh?
See my post #75.How many have you put through your P8?
Regrettably, I do not own an H&K P8. I wish I had one.Having said that, I own a PPX which has 3200 through the pipe
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most Reliable and durable handgun ever
- Thread starter gunis
- Start date
Single stack 9mm semis make a lot of sense for CCW. They carry and conceal well, are fast handling.
I have a 3rd Gen S&W 3913 Ladysmith. I really like it and in the US forums it is greatly praised for CCW.
It's been very reliable for me with 115 gr JHPs but I'm not sure about their durability performance.
My 5906 went down with extraction issues. (I know what you're thinking, but it was solely factory-loaded new brass case ammunition - WWB, mostly.)
At the time, there were only two S&W warranty stations in all of Canada, and getting replacement parts was an issue too. S&W suggested that because my ten-year-old 5906 was, and I quote, "obsolete", I should just switch to an M&P9. (As it happened, I already had an M&P9, but she didn't know that.) I found it unreasonable of S&W to fail to support the 5906 so quickly after it's manufacture and sale, and I told her so. Not long after that, a new (blued steel) extractor and several extractor springs appeared in the mail from S&W. I then mailed the pistol, and the new parts, all the way across the country so that the warranty station could install them.
All was well for about 2000 rounds (just factory-loaded new brass case ammunition), when the extraction issues started again. I took it out of service, switched to the M&P9, and eventually had a local gunsmith change the extractor spring (for one of the spares that S&W had sent me). By that time, I'd already switched to the M&P9, and I shot that M&P9 for part of one season until the striker broke, and there were no strikers to be had anywhere (no strikers from S&W, no strikers from the warranty stations, no strikers from Brownells) and I switched to my Glock G19 (which has been proven completly reliable).
Not long after that, an RCMP member acquaintance told me that all members' pistols were returned to Depot for service EVERY YEAR. While at Depot, he said, among other thing, the pistols' extractor springs were replaced, EVERY YEAR.
I laugh every time I see someone talking about how great the 3rd gen S&W pistols were. Here's a hint: if they were that great, they'd still be in production, and the RCMP in the sky wouldn't be carrying the G19.
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easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
Define “most reliable and durable gun ever”
Then why is that Walther had to put a hex pin through the frame of the gun?
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
The specification was for " reliable and durable". Given that, I would suggest that a stainless steel Ruger GP100 would fit the bill. Accuracy is another matter and was not asked. From what I understand, an SKS from Cabela's will fire each and every time, but still will not make 1 MOA accuracy.
As far as durability goes, perhaps best to see what works in the sand box. The Beretta 92FS has been used for many years in that environment.
Israel had some success with 1970's vintage Beretta model 71's, but those were mostly used up close and personal.
As far as durability goes, perhaps best to see what works in the sand box. The Beretta 92FS has been used for many years in that environment.
Israel had some success with 1970's vintage Beretta model 71's, but those were mostly used up close and personal.
This Thread was getting off topic, so I repost this again.
FN USA did destructive and endurance testing on handguns when they were developing the FN 509 for the US Army RFP. As usual the Glock, Sig P226 did extremely well....but....
The HK USP was the most reliable and durable handgun that they tested. It's performance was actually unbelievable and shocked FN USA.
Now before guys start chiming in on how their favorite Glock or whatever is just as good, please consider the magnitude of the FN USA test.
Millions of dollars with parameters of testing that most "experts" here on gunnutz don't have a clue about nor the technical expertise to put into action.
That's why when a Company like HK, FN (USA or Herstal), Knights, Sig Sauer, Sig Sauer AG (formally Swiss Arms) does testing it carries more weight than internet gun enthusiasts.
Now Large Range operators have some say as well. Especially places like "Battle Field Las Vegas", where very high round counts are realized. But these outfits are still not testing
to the same level or expertise as the large companies mentioned above (although Sig Sauer AG is not a large company anymore, their former expertise and testing data is immense).
Sample sizes also matter. An enthusiast owning a few guns and telling the internet world what they know is not the same as large sample sizes involving dozens, hundreds or thousands
of guns being put into Service.
Rich
FN USA did destructive and endurance testing on handguns when they were developing the FN 509 for the US Army RFP. As usual the Glock, Sig P226 did extremely well....but....
The HK USP was the most reliable and durable handgun that they tested. It's performance was actually unbelievable and shocked FN USA.
Now before guys start chiming in on how their favorite Glock or whatever is just as good, please consider the magnitude of the FN USA test.
Millions of dollars with parameters of testing that most "experts" here on gunnutz don't have a clue about nor the technical expertise to put into action.
That's why when a Company like HK, FN (USA or Herstal), Knights, Sig Sauer, Sig Sauer AG (formally Swiss Arms) does testing it carries more weight than internet gun enthusiasts.
Now Large Range operators have some say as well. Especially places like "Battle Field Las Vegas", where very high round counts are realized. But these outfits are still not testing
to the same level or expertise as the large companies mentioned above (although Sig Sauer AG is not a large company anymore, their former expertise and testing data is immense).
Sample sizes also matter. An enthusiast owning a few guns and telling the internet world what they know is not the same as large sample sizes involving dozens, hundreds or thousands
of guns being put into Service.
Rich
Without the hex pin the steel locking block was sliding on an aluminum alloy frame. As a result that part of the frame was prematurely wearing out because the locking block was harder than the aluminum substrate. With the hex pin the steel locking block is sliding on a steel hex pin. Otherwise, the aluminum alloy frame is O.K. There is a number of aluminum alloy-frame pistols like the Sig and Beretta pistols.
Sorry,
Don't have a link to the FN Testing.
That said, the original RFP for the US Army was that the gun needed to be able to fire 60K without any armoring or parts changes...including recoil springs.
The FN 509 was developed to achieve this standard.....then the RFP was changed during evaluation of the candidate weapons. (By the way, HK USP reaches this standard
easily!)
Down select was made to Sig P320 and Glock, FN claimed this was an unfair process (and are right). Glock submitted with a manual safety (often a requirement of Big Army Forces). Glock had funny grip angle and was beat on price by Sig P320. That said the RFP was for a "Modular Handgun", Sig P320 was realistically the only true "Modular" handgun submitted. A few teething problems, but now the P320 is performing spectacular in US Forces use. All branches have now adopted it. As the legacy Glocks in SOF age and wear out they are being replaced by Sig P320's (mostly M18 / variants or XSeries variants).
HK often advertises guns like the P30 and HK45 performing 90K torcher testing (they put the empty casings in a big glass container and put the gun on top / kind of cool) without any lube or recoil spring change. Very hard to beat that performance.
Not sure if the SFP-9 is able to reach those levels with out parts changes.
Rich
Don't have a link to the FN Testing.
That said, the original RFP for the US Army was that the gun needed to be able to fire 60K without any armoring or parts changes...including recoil springs.
The FN 509 was developed to achieve this standard.....then the RFP was changed during evaluation of the candidate weapons. (By the way, HK USP reaches this standard
easily!)
Down select was made to Sig P320 and Glock, FN claimed this was an unfair process (and are right). Glock submitted with a manual safety (often a requirement of Big Army Forces). Glock had funny grip angle and was beat on price by Sig P320. That said the RFP was for a "Modular Handgun", Sig P320 was realistically the only true "Modular" handgun submitted. A few teething problems, but now the P320 is performing spectacular in US Forces use. All branches have now adopted it. As the legacy Glocks in SOF age and wear out they are being replaced by Sig P320's (mostly M18 / variants or XSeries variants).
HK often advertises guns like the P30 and HK45 performing 90K torcher testing (they put the empty casings in a big glass container and put the gun on top / kind of cool) without any lube or recoil spring change. Very hard to beat that performance.
Not sure if the SFP-9 is able to reach those levels with out parts changes.
Rich
Except that teeny little spring for the bolt stop - which disables the gun...
