Measurement I give may be flawed..........that target is from a print shop, it may not be a true scale of a IBS score target, 10 or 20 thou difference on the score lines could be the make or break of the target, as with Calvins measurements...he didn't get a full .750 from 10 ring to 9 ring but slightly smaller, so adjusting your scale slightly smaller would infact make the group smaller, we are splitting hairs on how close it could or couldn't be...........
My rifle shoots 1/2" groups @100 yards all day! Really? Prove it.
- Thread starter Underthegun
- Start date
Measurement I give may be flawed..........that target is from a print shop, it may not be a true scale of a IBS score target, 10 or 20 thou difference on the score lines could be the make or break of the target, as with Calvins measurements...he didn't get a full .750 from 10 ring to 9 ring but slightly smaller, so adjusting your scale slightly smaller would infact make the group smaller, we are splitting hairs on how close it could or couldn't be...........
Thats what I would be lead to believe as well....if you take a picture of a target on a slight angle I am sure it will make the holes apear to be oval, so when your splitting thousanths of a inch I don't think its nearly accurate enough to be used in a case like this.....
Sooooo..........more people shoot and post pictures of targets.....after all this is a shooting challenge............when you can beat the challenge and get your name in the 1st post then you can referree...........til then.......sit back and watch.............maybe learn something....
Matt_dal123
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I may be wrong. It's just a observation in my own opinion. But your right. Does seen like a minority is being a little off.
This is why I was skeptical. If the scale was off and it isn't 1" for the 9 ring, it makes sense how it was .7415". This is why I asked the question. I don't want to see this thread turn into the spanish inquisition; I would like to see it stay alive till spring so I can at least post my attempt (most likely will only make it into the varmint rifle challenge thread).
Also, bravo to the guys that are going out there in when it's less than -20°c to attempt this. Those guys have balls.
lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
Nope, not anymore. Screw it and wait till spring. The only guys getting the groups are the warm weather boys.Also, bravo to the guys that are going out there in when it's less than -20°c to attempt this. Those guys have balls.
I should clarify something. I am not sure if the image with the verniers is being interpreted the way I meant it to be. The purpose of the exercise was just to show the relation of questioned group size to the actual target rings. If you look at my image and the target in question it is quite obvious.
With the 100 yard IBS score targets that I have the mothball is considered .500". If you set the verniers to .500 and put them in relation to the 10 ring the verniers will center pretty close to the middle of the black.
With the 200 yard target, the mothball is considered 1.000". You do the same with my targets and that 1" ends up just on the outside edges of the 10 ring.
OnTarget works okay but you can easily change group size by 20 thou depending if you are HONEST how you place the circles over the bullet holes. I did that exercise by uploading a few of my shot 200 yard targets.
It all boils down to HONESTY. If one cannot be honest with there measuring then this thread is NOT for you. If you make a mistake and realize it after own up to it.
I will keep trying and documenting my failures and possible successes with the .223. Then when the weather smartens up I may have to pull the BR rig out. That is the easy way to make this challenge.
Good Lord willing I will be out this weekend.
With the 100 yard IBS score targets that I have the mothball is considered .500". If you set the verniers to .500 and put them in relation to the 10 ring the verniers will center pretty close to the middle of the black.
With the 200 yard target, the mothball is considered 1.000". You do the same with my targets and that 1" ends up just on the outside edges of the 10 ring.
OnTarget works okay but you can easily change group size by 20 thou depending if you are HONEST how you place the circles over the bullet holes. I did that exercise by uploading a few of my shot 200 yard targets.
It all boils down to HONESTY. If one cannot be honest with there measuring then this thread is NOT for you. If you make a mistake and realize it after own up to it.
I will keep trying and documenting my failures and possible successes with the .223. Then when the weather smartens up I may have to pull the BR rig out. That is the easy way to make this challenge.
Good Lord willing I will be out this weekend.
lejarretnoir
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- 162km from Connaught
Now that is a serious bit of hardware. What scope base is that? Has BR finally gone to 1 pc bases?
I should clarify something. I am not sure if the image with the verniers is being interpreted the way I meant it to be. The purpose of the exercise was just to show the relation of questioned group size to the actual target rings. If you look at my image and the target in question it is quite obvious.
With the 100 yard IBS score targets that I have the mothball is considered .500". If you set the verniers to .500 and put them in relation to the 10 ring the verniers will center pretty close to the middle of the black.
With the 200 yard target, the mothball is considered 1.000". You do the same with my targets and that 1" ends up just on the outside edges of the 10 ring.
OnTarget works okay but you can easily change group size by 20 thou depending if you are HONEST how you place the circles over the bullet holes. I did that exercise by uploading a few of my shot 200 yard targets.
It all boils down to HONESTY. If one cannot be honest with there measuring then this thread is NOT for you. If you make a mistake and realize it after own up to it.
I will keep trying and documenting my failures and possible successes with the .223. Then when the weather smartens up I may have to pull the BR rig out. That is the easy way to make this challenge.
Good Lord willing I will be out this weekend.
Stupid question: what is that giant poo / snake thing for?
Answers to the questions.
The base is sort of one piece but not in the traditional sense. The scope is a FROZEN Leupold 45X. If you look closely you will see that the windage and elevation turrets are removed and the inerds are locked in place. The base is externally adjustable. Basically going back to the days of the Unertyl type of optics. Reasoning is that the weak link in the sport of SR BR is the scope holding POI 100%. Supposedly March has addressed this issue with there scopes but I am still a SKEPTIC. You pay BIG money for a 5 year warranty. I still pay less doing this and the guts are LOCKED in place and adjusted externally. This style is not as friendly as the Brackney rings but we are not constantly addjusting our scopes.
No Le, BR shooters are NOT going to 1 piece bases. The majority still use 2 piece bases with rings. Most use the Davidson/Kelby set up. For my Leupold on my other rifles that is not frozen I use 1 piece rings/bases from BAT.
The paint on the stock is NOT paint. It is a Robertson Composites stock made in the Speedy BRX configuration. Robertson made Speedy Gonzales stocks for him as they did for many other people. Unfortunately not until my buddy gets up and running will any of the Robertson stocks be out on the market. The Blue dots are just smiley faces stuck all over. I call this rifle Mr.Smiley/Happy Face.
The Edgewood snake bag is for beating the shooters around me if we double at the same time.............. LOL. It is just there to keep the towel down and to keep the ejected brass from rolling off of the bench.
How it shoot? Cannot say. Have not shot it in about 2-3 years in a match. It is basically relegated to my backup rifle. My newest rifle has been performing well for me so I have been shooting it. I hope to work with this rifle a bit more this year. I think that is all folks.
The base is sort of one piece but not in the traditional sense. The scope is a FROZEN Leupold 45X. If you look closely you will see that the windage and elevation turrets are removed and the inerds are locked in place. The base is externally adjustable. Basically going back to the days of the Unertyl type of optics. Reasoning is that the weak link in the sport of SR BR is the scope holding POI 100%. Supposedly March has addressed this issue with there scopes but I am still a SKEPTIC. You pay BIG money for a 5 year warranty. I still pay less doing this and the guts are LOCKED in place and adjusted externally. This style is not as friendly as the Brackney rings but we are not constantly addjusting our scopes.
No Le, BR shooters are NOT going to 1 piece bases. The majority still use 2 piece bases with rings. Most use the Davidson/Kelby set up. For my Leupold on my other rifles that is not frozen I use 1 piece rings/bases from BAT.
The paint on the stock is NOT paint. It is a Robertson Composites stock made in the Speedy BRX configuration. Robertson made Speedy Gonzales stocks for him as they did for many other people. Unfortunately not until my buddy gets up and running will any of the Robertson stocks be out on the market. The Blue dots are just smiley faces stuck all over. I call this rifle Mr.Smiley/Happy Face.
The Edgewood snake bag is for beating the shooters around me if we double at the same time.............. LOL. It is just there to keep the towel down and to keep the ejected brass from rolling off of the bench.
How it shoot? Cannot say. Have not shot it in about 2-3 years in a match. It is basically relegated to my backup rifle. My newest rifle has been performing well for me so I have been shooting it. I hope to work with this rifle a bit more this year. I think that is all folks.
Just got back from minni-vac. Thought I'd see lots of " GOOD RESULTS IN THE SHOOTIN CATAGORY " Hell , looks like a " WAR ZONE ". !!!!
Need more info?? -- Targets?? -- took one of PR's too our local printer - told him to make up a couple hundred - picked em up & their all undersize
80/100 tho. No big deal -- guy's @ my club don't know the dif. -- only shoot score anyways !! -- give to the kids to prac. on.
Nobody told me we were shootin IBS --thought it was just - putt'em on a target !!
-- Finger on the calipers? -- never really thought about it -- but being right handed to take the pic.- had to hold 'em someware to
get the damm points on the target -- more concernd about getting the dig. number than anything else.
OK -- enough quest.& ans. """ LETS GET BACK TO THE SHOOTIN & SEE SOME RESULTS """
Rob
Rob, if your targets were printed at another printer and they are infact 80-100 thou smaller then the group in question is more than likely as you measured.
I added .100 thou to the measurement in question. I set my verniers at .8415 and laid it against my IBS target. The spacing looks very similar.
I will be one to admit that when I see a score or group target I am ASSUMING they are official in sizing. This appears to NOT be the case for Rob. See below.
I added .100 thou to the measurement in question. I set my verniers at .8415 and laid it against my IBS target. The spacing looks very similar.
I will be one to admit that when I see a score or group target I am ASSUMING they are official in sizing. This appears to NOT be the case for Rob. See below.
I apprec. your interjection!! Had I been close to my computer the past few days I would have offered the information required to resolve this situation.
I knew that submitting a target @ .498 was tight -- but i had no idea how things were scrutinized on the internet!! WELL AWARE OF IT NOW!!!
Could not help but notice your br. package -- very nicely done -- couple of quick quest?
(1 )- LV class I assume ? -- ( 2 )- Gene Bukys mount ? -(3) any problem making weight ?
Reason I ask is I have one of Lester Bruno's LV br.'s -- gonna change mounts for freeze job --going to Bukys mount if I can still make weight ?? ----- any idea what your mount weigh's ???
Thanks Rob
I knew that submitting a target @ .498 was tight -- but i had no idea how things were scrutinized on the internet!! WELL AWARE OF IT NOW!!!
Could not help but notice your br. package -- very nicely done -- couple of quick quest?
(1 )- LV class I assume ? -- ( 2 )- Gene Bukys mount ? -(3) any problem making weight ?
Reason I ask is I have one of Lester Bruno's LV br.'s -- gonna change mounts for freeze job --going to Bukys mount if I can still make weight ?? ----- any idea what your mount weigh's ???
Thanks Rob
Why are you guys measuring from the outside of the holes? Measure from the center of the POI? If you measure from the outside of the strike its actually half a bullet wider than the true POI.
I measure from the outside, then subtract the caliber diameter.
Unless its some type of competition rule or something, or international standard then nevermind. It's just how I do it, but that said I'm not a sub .5" shooter either.
I measure from the outside, then subtract the caliber diameter.
Unless its some type of competition rule or something, or international standard then nevermind. It's just how I do it, but that said I'm not a sub .5" shooter either.
This is what everyone is doing already.
GoFaster, in BR Group shooting, groups are measured outside to outside. The key here is an actual measuring device is used. If you look at my first post on this thread you will see my Neil Jones meauring device. The most accurate way to measure is with one. There are etched circles in 22, 243, 6.5, 7mm, and 30 cal. When you measure the group you center the etched circle of one bullet hole, hold it in place by depresing the pin into the target. Then you open the verniers to the widest point bullet hole and center over it. This is your measurement. You should never be more than 10 thou difference from measurement to measurement if you measure the same target over and over again. You may be even less if you get good at it.
When using verniers from center to center, How close can one get to center of each bullet hole? There is no line/edge to measure against. With the edge of the bullet hole you see the black outline. THe key is to error on the big side in the game. At least that is the way I look at it. You have to be real and measure each and every group the same.
Okay back to the topic. I will be out this weekend again to maybe or maybe not fail. The plan is to NOT fail. I think this will be attempt 7 or 8.
When using verniers from center to center, How close can one get to center of each bullet hole? There is no line/edge to measure against. With the edge of the bullet hole you see the black outline. THe key is to error on the big side in the game. At least that is the way I look at it. You have to be real and measure each and every group the same.
Okay back to the topic. I will be out this weekend again to maybe or maybe not fail. The plan is to NOT fail. I think this will be attempt 7 or 8.
