New to PCC, need advice on scope

brybenn said:
I had a red dot on my jrc9 and found even with a 3moa dot it covered to much of the target for precise aiming. Ok for slapping steel and wasting ammo but when I wanted to hit smaller targets I just couldn't see the target under the dot. I switched to a Leopold 1-5x20 and love it. I can take the head off a grouse now while hunting and hit empty 12ga casings at 100m as well
I'm slowly converting all my red dots to lpvo
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You're absolutely bringing a good point here. There's a difference in needs between shooting at the range and shooting outside at longer distances. Before posting here, I was really debating between which to choose, LPVO or red dot and I was thinking more LPVO at that time until I posted here. I do like longer precision shots. A 1x5 like you have does appeal to me although yours is most likely way out of my budget. I guess I could look at classifieds. Anyways these 2 are what I was looking into before. What do you think?

https://www.rdsc.ca/optics-mounts/v...6x24-sfp-rifle-scope-ar-bdc3-reticle-moa.html

https://www.rdsc.ca/optics-mounts/p...cope-gen-iv-acss-nova-fiber-wire-reticle.html
 
That Primary Arms with the Nova reticle looks nice, I'd rather go with an LPVO then a red dot and magnifier.

If I was getting a micro prism I'd probably go with the newer GLX model.
 
Brybenn brings up a good point.

If it was going on a .223 or 7.62, then I’d agree and an lpvo could be a good option.
I had a similar experience with a 2moa dot on a 7.62. At 100m range I couldn’t see my POA/POI as well with the red dot. Even 2moa was too vague. I found the lpvo too awkward to adjust for quick target adjustment, and very heavy. Ultimately I found the red dot/magnifier to be ideal for me on that setup.

I don’t use my 9mm PCC for hunting small game when a 22lr does the same job better. Therefore a nice red dot (or 1x prism) with a magnifier seems the ideal setup to cover 0-100m and still have a good view of your POA/POI.

Just my tuppence!
 
ELEMENT WIND said:
You're absolutely bringing a good point here. There's a difference in needs between shooting at the range and shooting outside at longer distances. Before posting here, I was really debating between which to choose, LPVO or red dot and I was thinking more LPVO at that time until I posted here. I do like longer precision shots. A 1x5 like you have does appeal to me although yours is most likely way out of my budget. I guess I could look at classifieds. Anyways these 2 are what I was looking into before. What do you think?

https://www.rdsc.ca/optics-mounts/v...6x24-sfp-rifle-scope-ar-bdc3-reticle-moa.html

https://www.rdsc.ca/optics-mounts/p...cope-gen-iv-acss-nova-fiber-wire-reticle.html
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If you do decide on the lpvo, both of those are good options, although I would go with the PA. I feel you get better value for money with PA than vortex.
 
morp said:
Brybenn brings up a good point.

If it was going on a .223 or 7.62, then I’d agree and an lpvo could be a good option.
I had a similar experience with a 2moa dot on a 7.62. At 100m range I couldn’t see my POA/POI as well with the red dot. Even 2moa was too vague. I found the lpvo too awkward to adjust for quick target adjustment, and very heavy. Ultimately I found the red dot/magnifier to be ideal for me on that setup.

I don’t use my 9mm PCC for hunting small game when a 22lr does the same job better. Therefore a nice red dot (or 1x prism) with a magnifier seems the ideal setup to cover 0-100m and still have a good view of your POA/POI.

Just my tuppence!
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I will not disagree with you about those points you're bringing, you make perfect sense to me.

I think I will have to decide really about what I'm going to do with the new PCC. maybe even wait until I have it to really see what I'd prefer. That and going to the store so I physically see both options. I do have a 22lr with a great scope and that comment you made about it made me think. I'm new to PCC and 9mm too so I take consideration in that advise you just gave me. Thanks!
 
morp said:
If you do decide on the lpvo, both of those are good options, although I would go with the PA. I feel you get better value for money with PA than vortex.
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Thank you, I appreciate it. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know so that's great to know! Cheers
 
ELEMENT WIND said:
I will not disagree with you about those points you're bringing, you make perfect sense to me.

I think I will have to decide really about what I'm going to do with the new PCC. maybe even wait until I have it to really see what I'd prefer. That and going to the store so I physically see both options. I do have a 22lr with a great scope and that comment you made about it made me think. I'm new to PCC and 9mm too so I take consideration in that advise you just gave me. Thanks!
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All good! For me the 9mm PCC shines at 0-50m. Sure it can go longer, but I only need to be hitting minute of beer can at 100m with mine to be happy. But I DO want it to be snappy and quick to handle and focus. A 1x prism or nice red dot (+/- magnifier) would be my choice on the 9mm.

For a hunting rifle, or a rifle that i want to reach out more, then I prefer a finer reticle so I can really dial in my shots at ranges where my eyes struggle. A regular scope, an lpvo or a prism & mag. depending on the usage.

After handling/making your initial purchase, if you change your mind, then the 2nd hand market is a great place to try out a few different options. Buy quality at a decent price, treat it good and you will be able to resell for around the same price you paid. Allows you to try a few different options.
 
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morp said:
All good! For me the 9mm PCC shines at 0-50m. Sure it can go longer, but I only need to be hitting minute of beer can at 100m with mine to be happy. But I DO want it to be snappy and quick to handle and focus. A 1x prism (+/- magnifier) would be my choice on the 9mm.

For a hunting rifle, or a rifle that i want to reach out more, then I prefer a finer reticle so I can really dial in my shots at ranges where my eyes struggle. A regular scope, an lpvo or a prism & mag. depending on the usage.

After handling/making your initial purchase, if you change your mind, then the 2nd hand market is a great place to try out a few different options. Buy quality at a decent price, treat it good and you will be able to resell for around the same price you paid. Allows you to try a few different options.
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All good points! I do have on hand a Sig romeo 5 red dot on a different setup. I might just swap it for my initial tests and go from there. I'd like to upgrade to a prizm red dot though like it's been recommended multiple times so if I judge after my test it's sufficient, I'll upgrade to that. I could also buy a magnifier to match my romeo 5, that's another option. If I'd like to see further reach, I'll get something like in my link, 1-6. I could always move it to the 22lr as well if I change my mind later on. It's hard to tell until I fire the new PCC for the first time, I've never shot one... Cheers!
 
maifire said:
I am pretty happy with my 1-4 lpvo. Illum reticle serves as my red dot. Instinctual (snap) shooting involves lots of practice, not just an optic. Magnification is always there if i need it. If not, i dial down.
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It sure bring versatility, I agree with you completely. That's how I was seeing it too. What do you have if you don't mind me asking?
 
If the carbine is capable of shooting 3 moa groups, a 3 moa red dot will be the same as your group size, put the dot on the spot and your making hits. I generally prefer smaller dot sizes but I don't really understand the people complaining that the dot covers their target?

What are you shooting at that is smaller then 3moa with a PCC? Golf balls?

If your target is 3 inches big when it's gone your on... :)
Hold over can be as easy as holding the 3moa just above the target or below depending on the range needed.

I have mild astigmatism so a red dot is never going to be a sharp aimpoint where I can shoot targets smaller then 3 inches at 100 yards... but if your shooting for groups or targets smaller then and 3/4" at 25 yards a magnified optic is better plus you can adjust the optic to your eyes if necessary and if you have astigmatism get a finer aiming point.

OP, maybe you already mentioned it but what are your targets of preference? Do you want to ring steel out to 100 yards and maybe if your lucky enough to have a shooting spot that allows it shoot cans and clays etc.... or do you want to try and shoot small groups with your PCC?

How is your eyesight? Do you have astigmatism? I didn't even know what that was till I bought a red dot 20 years ago..... :)

Red dots are easy to shoot for new shooters and generally "fun" optics to plink with.

At the end of the day this likey won't be your only firearm and a .22lr is probably something you will be looking at soon, you will likely end up with red dots and scopes soon enough.
 
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For eyes with astigmatism and red dots, I recommend adding a flip-up rear peep sight. Keep it down for close up shots, don't obstruct the red dot, both eyes open. But for precision, flip it up, narrow the eye through the peep, goodbye flare! Imo more useful than a magnifier for 9mm and a lot less weight (and money). Can also be used with magnifiers.
 
Can-down said:
If the carbine is capable of shooting 3 moa groups, a 3 moa red dot will be the same as your group size, put the dot on the spot and your making hits. I generally prefer smaller dot sizes but I don't really understand the people complaining that the dot covers their target?

What are you shooting at that is smaller then 3moa with a PCC? Golf balls?

If your target is 3 inches big when it's gone your on... :)
Hold over can be as easy as holding the 3moa just above the target or below depending on the range needed.

I have mild astigmatism so a red dot is never going to be a sharp aimpoint where I can shoot targets smaller then 3 inches at 100 yards... but if your shooting for groups or targets smaller then and 3/4" at 25 yards a magnified optic is better plus you can adjust the optic to your eyes if necessary and if you have astigmatism get a finer aiming point.

OP, maybe you already mentioned it but what are your targets of preference? Do you want to ring steel out to 100 yards and maybe if your lucky enough to have a shooting spot that allows it shoot cans and clays etc.... or do you want to try and shoot small groups with your PCC?

How is your eyesight? Do you have astigmatism? I didn't even know what that was till I bought a red dot 20 years ago..... :)

Red dots are easy to shoot for new shooters and generally "fun" optics to plink with.

At the end of the day this likey won't be your only firearm and a .22lr is probably something you will be looking at soon, you will likely end up with red dots and scopes soon enough.
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Thank you for taking the time to educate me on the subject you're bringing good points. I'm definitely getting old but my eyes are still holding up except when I read.

My goal with it is to do some "precision" shooting at 100 yards. I do live in a rural area and I'll be looking for a spot to shoot cans in the wild.

What we are doing right now my son and I is shoot a .22 air rifle on the property. It's a good one, sniper type and we shoot using a 3-9 scope and it's mainly set at 9 honestly. We do precision shooting, I made all kind of targets, I call the shots with binoculars and he shoots. Been many years and now I want to step up so I got a pass at the local range. I'll get him started with the .22 and eventually move on to the 9mm which I will be using meanwhile.

So, I do have a Romeo5 red dot. I installed it on the newly purchased Sig Sauer PCP semi auto .22 as I tough it would be more appropriate for it. While it's nice and quick, my son and I guess myself are so used to a 9x that a red dot kinda lack I don't know, we are just so used to seeing the hole being made I guess... Long story short, I get that I'm not going to be installing a 9x on a PCC but I was think a 1-4 or 1-6 originally until I posted here and ask the guys who knows more than I do what they use and mainly its a red dot it seems like.

So I'm looking at either a prism dot or PA SLx 1-6 that's where am at! Decision decision!
 
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joemanco said:
For eyes with astigmatism and red dots, I recommend adding a flip-up rear peep sight. Keep it down for close up shots, don't obstruct the red dot, both eyes open. But for precision, flip it up, narrow the eye through the peep, goodbye flare! Imo more useful than a magnifier for 9mm and a lot less weight (and money). Can also be used with magnifiers.
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That's a good call, thank you for bringing this up. I'm glad I posted here, I'm getting so much valuable insights!
 
joemanco said:
For eyes with astigmatism and red dots, I recommend adding a flip-up rear peep sight. Keep it down for close up shots, don't obstruct the red dot, both eyes open. But for precision, flip it up, narrow the eye through the peep, goodbye flare! Imo more useful than a magnifier for 9mm and a lot less weight (and money). Can also be used with magnifiers.
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I can see that working for sure, I tend to just accept that my dots are not perfect and live with it.... :)
 
ELEMENT WIND said:
Thank you for taking the time to educate me on the subject you're bringing good points. I'm definitely getting old but my eyes are still holding up except when I read.

My goal with it is to do some "precision" shooting at 100 yards. I do live in a riral area and I'll be looking for a spot to shoot cans in the wild.

What we are doing right now my son and I is shoot a .22 air rifle on the property. It's a good one, sniper type and we shoot using a 3-9 scope and it's mainly set at 9 honestly. We do precision shooting, I made all kind of targets, I call the shots with binoculars and he shoots. Been many years and now I want to step up so I got a pass at the local range. I'll get him started with the .22 and eventually move on to the 9mm which I will be using meanwhile.

So, I do have a Romeo5 red dot. I installed it on the newly purchased Sig Sauer PCP semi auto .22 as I tough it would be more appropriate for it. While it's nice and quick, my son and I guess myself are so used to a 9x that a red dot kinda lack I don't know, we are just so used to seeing the hole being made I guess... Long story short, I get that I'm not going to be installing a 9x on a PCC but I was think a 1-4 or 1-6 originally until I posted here and ask the guys who knows more than I do what they use and mainly its a red dot it seems like.

So I'm looking at either a prism dot or PA SLx 1-6 that's where am at! Decision decision!
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A 1-4 is not going to be that much cheaper or smaller then a 1-6 or even a 1-8...... I'd rather shoot a 1-8 at 6 power then a 1-6 at 6 power.

That said, if your budget it tight a 1-6 will be fine. 1-4 is a bit old school these days.... optics have advanced a fair bit in the last 15 years or so!

9mm PCC is not the best "percision" rig, I think they are more suited to ringing steel gongs, and shooting clay pigeon sized targets out to 100 yards,
 
Can-down said:
A 1-4 is not going to be that much cheaper or smaller then a 1-6 or even a 1-8...... I'd rather shoot a 1-8 at 6 power then a 1-6 at 6 power.

That said, if your budget it tight a 1-6 will be fine. 1-4 is a bit old school these days.... optics have advanced a fair bit in the last 15 years or so!

9mm PCC is not the best "percision" rig, I think they are more suited to ringing steel gongs, and shooting clay pigeon sized targets out to 100 yards,
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Thanks for your reply.
Can I ask you why a 1-8 set at 6 would be better than a 1-6 at 6?

You're last paragraph make me think that maybe a red dot is better suited for a PCC then...
 
morp said:
Brybenn brings up a good point.

If it was going on a .223 or 7.62, then I’d agree and an lpvo could be a good option.
I had a similar experience with a 2moa dot on a 7.62. At 100m range I couldn’t see my POA/POI as well with the red dot. Even 2moa was too vague. I found the lpvo too awkward to adjust for quick target adjustment, and very heavy. Ultimately I found the red dot/magnifier to be ideal for me on that setup.

I don’t use my 9mm PCC for hunting small game when a 22lr does the same job better. Therefore a nice red dot (or 1x prism) with a magnifier seems the ideal setup to cover 0-100m and still have a good view of your POA/POI.

Just my tuppence!
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Same for me.

LPVO on a 223 rifle that can make the most of the extra magnification & red dot on a PCC.

For 223 rifles a red dot is a bit of an enigma, if the dot is large enough to make finding close targets super easy then it is too large at distance. Conversely if it is small enough to be precise at distance it is too small for close range.

This is where an LPVO fits the bill well, preferably a FFP which I feel is the best all around fit. YMMV.
 
Can-down said:
That Primary Arms with the Nova reticle looks nice, I'd rather go with an LPVO then a red dot and magnifier.

If I was getting a micro prism I'd probably go with the newer GLX model.
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Same.

Having tried both LPVO all day long (as opposed to red dot and magnifier)
 
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