Norinco 1911 Round Count

Notice the Anti-norc folks are from Montreal.
Gun dealers here have spent alot of time ####ting on Norinco and pushing name brands they sell at sometomes twice there actual value. These are the same people signing up for range memberships at dumps like CTVSP.

:|
 
Norinco

Scarecrow said:
Notice the Anti-norc folks are from Montreal.
Gun dealers here have spent alot of time s**tting on Norinco and pushing name brands they sell at sometomes twice there actual value. These are the same people signing up for range memberships at dumps like CTVSP.

:|

Well I am glad to read your article Mr. Scarecrow, shows that you know nothing about the gun trade. I have nothing against Norinco, but don't tell me that it is a good gun. It is a gun for those who maybe like you, don't have the money to afford a good gun. Because if it was a great gun at the price it is selling for it would be used internationally in IPSC ::rolleyes: :( :eek:
Maybe it is good for the dump that you shoot at, (Is it CTM) but not for real competitors.

By the way I don't really think that any store in North America sells guns for double what they are worth... Get with the times Clown, and start with that foul mouth of yours.:p :p :p
 
Just an update. Broke a barrel link on my custom Norinco A1, had to replace barrel with a Dlask Custom due to misfit barrel - not an uncommon problem if there is going to be a problem with Norks. Gun has withstood one Kaboom due to bullet set back and shoots 1 1/2" groups at 25 metres from a rest. Frame has about 2,000 rds on it barrell less than 300. Gun will last a lifetime and more.

My Nork Commander is now over 1,000 rds and is hardly broke in.

Take Care
 
Speaking of clowns....As it happens Norinco 1911's are used as the basis for IPSC pistols by many 'Smiths.

cruncher said:
Well I am glad to read your article Mr. Scarecrow, shows that you know nothing about the gun trade. I have nothing against Norinco, but don't tell me that it is a good gun. It is a gun for those who maybe like you, don't have the money to afford a good gun. Because if it was a great gun at the price it is selling for it would be used internationally in IPSC ::rolleyes: :( :eek:
Maybe it is good for the dump that you shoot at, (Is it CTM) but not for real competitors.

By the way I don't really think that any store in North America sells guns for double what they are worth... Get with the times Clown, and start with that foul mouth of yours.:p :p :p
 
Norinco 1911

SixtynineSanta,

I have about 5K through my Norinco 1911 (almost all cast reloads). All firecontrol parts, barrel, bushing, grip safety, FLGR, sights, etc. were changed out when new to Brown match products and I have not had a FTF/FTF yet. The slide to frame fit was tightened and lapped and it truly is a great shooter in my books. I bought the pistol years ago for $199.oo plus tax and have maybe $600 into the gun. I couldn't be happier.

I'm considering buying a second 1911A1 from Armco to put my .22 conversion unit on if he would return my emails. Anybody heard from Gunner recently? With this one I'll make sure the barrel/slide/bushing lockup is correct and change the sights but otherwise leave it alone.

Regards,

Outdoors
 
cruncher

You might want to do just a tad more research before you grab your keyboard or put another way - before you connect your mouth to your brain.

THe Phillipine National Police just chose the Norinco A1 as their sidearm after extensive testing. It is called the "Police" model there. Norinco makes a number of 1911's which are not available in Canada, yet. One of the newest models is called the "Police Model". Go here for a look see.


http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=13398

See post #7

Take Care
 
I have a Norinco 45 and it works fine, for the money I think it is an great pistol, after all it is 1/3 the price of a big name basic 45. The only things I installed, because I like them better, are a flat mainspring housing, a long trigger and a new Wolff hammer spring and recoil spring. And I do own a few "good guns", the thing I can't believe is that you guys keep a round count of your pistols. I have handguns that I have been shooting for over 20 years and many are in duplicate calibers, when I go to the range I grab a ziplock bag of ammo and a couple of pistols and just shoot them. When the bag is empty it has been a good day.:D
 
works fine for the money

Silverback said:
I have a Norinco 45 and it works fine, for the money I think it is an great pistol, after all it is 1/3 the price of a big name basic 45. The only things I installed, because I like them better, are a flat mainspring housing, a long trigger and a new Wolff hammer spring and recoil spring. And I do own a few "good guns", the thing I can't believe is that you guys keep a round count of your pistols. I have handguns that I have been shooting for over 20 years and many are in duplicate calibers, when I go to the range I grab a ziplock bag of ammo and a couple of pistols and just shoot them. When the bag is empty it has been a good day.:D

This is the most inteligent comment yet. Silverback hit it right on the head. Norinco is a great gun For the Money. Yes I agree. But that is it. If gunsmiths are using Norinco frames and slides to make a custom gun....Well someone is getting ripped off.... Norinco uses a softer metal than other than North American Standards. Thats why our guns out last the norinco in every field. Naturally the price is not the same. A Hyundai has for wheels but it is not a Mercedes.
 
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cruncher said:
This is the most inteligent comment yet. Silverback hit it right on the head. Norinco is a great gun For the Money. Yes I agree. But that is it. If gunsmiths are using Norinco frames and slides to make a custom gun....Well someone is getting ripped off.... Norinco uses a softer metal than other than North American Standards. Thats why our guns out last the norinco in every field. Naturally the price is not the same. A Hyundai has for wheels but it is not a Mercedes.


Somebody is going to ask you where you got that fact.
 
Simply not true.

Noteworthy Pistolsmiths have commented on the high quality and toughness of the steel used in producing the Norinco 1911 style pistols.

Note that some other brands, including USGI pistols, are not considered suitable for the .460 Rowland conversion.

http://www.realguns.com/archives/106.htm
All 1911 type guns should not be converted for the Rowland

MAP specification for the .45 ACP, .45 ACP +P, 45 Super and 460 Rowland from various sources are 21,000 PSI, 23,000 PSI, 28,000 PSI, and 40,000 C.U.P respectively. The last unit of measurement is inconsistent with PSI, however, data appearing elsewhere can bring this pressure spec into context. Accurate Arms, the company assisting Clark in developing load data, indicates the cartridge was developed to the 45 Winchester Magnum 40,000 C.U.P. pressure limit, a cartridge with a CIP standard of 39,885 PSI. The maximum loads that serve as the basis for the 460 Rowland cartridge's advertised performance, generate pressure levels below the 40,000 CUP level, more typically the 34,000 ~ 38,000 range. While in sharp increase to the standard 45 ACP, the Rowland is not much different from other current high intensity handgun cartridges for guns of similar design: 40 Super 38,000 PSI, 400 Cor-Bon 33,500 PSI, 357 SIG 40,000 PSI, 38 Super Auto +P 36,500 PSI, 10mm Auto 33,400 PSI, 9mm Luger +P 38,500 PSI, 40 S&W 35,000 PSI.

Clark Custom Guns addresses the increase pressure of the 460 Rowland in several ways, the first by limiting 1911 conversion candidates to only quality firearms. As of this writing, this includes:

Colt Government Model
Colt 1991A1 Government
Colt Gold Cup Government
Colt Gold Cup Commander
Colt Enhanced 1911 Government
Colt Enhanced 1911 Commander
Kimber 1911 Government
Norinco 1911 Government
Springfield Armory 1911-A1 Government

Clark has not developed kits for Glock, Ruger, Sig Sauer, H&K and S&W 45 Semi Auto Pistols, and yet I do not feel distressed over the issue, even though I own some of these. While catalogued 1911 kits may fit, Clark specifically does not recommend attempting conversions on firearms from: Israeli Arms International, Auto Ordnance, Llama, AMT, Charles Daly or "GI" 1911. Concerns noted are inconsistent spot heat treating and soft slide top lugs. Clark had produced a kit for Para Ordnance guns, but they have since discontinued the version citing reliability problems. The 460 Rowland, more than any +P or Super load, taxes the limits of the 1911 design. As a point of reference, the pressure equal of the 460 Rowland, the 45 Winchester Mag, was intended for the heavy gas operated Wildey Mag, a design were operation would be naturally dampened. In order to use the same cartridge in the L.A.R. Grizzly, a more traditional short recoil - locked breech design gun, the manufacturer had to rely on some special steps to assure adequate strength: better grade of raw materials, closer fitting parts, in-house Rockwell testing, process certification, reduced firing pin diameter and more closely matched breech opening, maximum lock up surface and contact, and an increased mass slide. Steps weren't taken to thicken chamber or breech wall thickness, steps were taken to prevent the slide from being beaten into submission, and to prevent primer flow into the breech face. Clark addressed the potential for over zealous slide movement problem by hanging a compensator on all 460 Rowland barrels. The compensator causes a partial pressure drop before the barrel drops and releases the slide, which dampens the slide's movement. The compensator is so effective, the 460 Rowland, with 30% more chamber pressure and 15%~20% more velocity, uses a lower recoil spring rate than a typical 45 Super conversion. The compensator approach even allows for the conversion of the shorter 4.25" barrel Colt Commander.
cruncher said:
This is the most inteligent comment yet. Silverback hit it right on the head. Norinco is a great gun For the Money. Yes I agree. But that is it. If gunsmiths are using Norinco frames and slides to make a custom gun....Well someone is getting ripped off.... Norinco uses a softer metal than other than North American Standards. Thats why our guns out last the norinco in every field. Naturally the price is not the same. A Hyundai has for wheels but it is not a Mercedes.
 
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Cruncher

You were doing sorta OK until the comment about Norinco using softer steel. With that comment you confirmed to most of us you don't know what you are talking about!

If you have any more insightful comments about Norincos - none of us are all ears!

Take Care
 
Actually I heard some gunsmiths dont like working on Norinco .45s as the steel is to hard and is difficult to cut and work with compared to softer US brands. I have had my .45 since when they first came out I think, maybe near 10k rounds through it? It is a rock.
 
yOU MAY BE RIGHT BUT????

:)
Canuck44 said:
You were doing sorta OK until the comment about Norinco using softer steel. With that comment you confirmed to most of us you don't know what you are talking about!

If you have any more insightful comments about Norincos - none of us are all ears!

Take Care


This is part of an article on business develpement in China,

"Dong Yizheng, who has played an active role in helping Chinese loss-making metallurgical enterprises out of difficulties, firmly believes in the huge potential of Chinese steel producers. "The underlying factor in reforms is to make them enhance the quality of their products."
Smaller producers should focus on ordinary products such as steel for construction within the domestic market, said Dong. Baoshan, China's largest steel producer, has pledged to produce quality and high value-added products. China is the world's largest steel producer, but it still has to import seven million tons of steel products each year. China's metallurgical industry will focus on developing and producing better quality steel products in the next several years. Wu Xichun, chairman of China Iron and Steel Association, said China's industrialization process will fuel its steel industry, which is instrumental to the country's development."

By the way I wish I did drive a Benz I drive a Sonata...:) Great car but not a Benz
 
Steeling Yourself for Defeat

This is certainly the sound of a lost argument. Bring up some vague generality that has nothing to do with the specifics of the discussion, ie. the quality of the steel in Norincos. Mine is 2k rounds in and has had no problems whatsoever - only issues I've had have been with my sloppy reloads :)

cruncher said:
:) This is part of an article on business develpement in China - "Chinese steel producers....the underlying factor in reforms is to make them enhance the quality of their products."
 
Canuck44 said:
Just an update. Broke a barrel link on my custom Norinco A1, had to replace barrel with a Dlask Custom due to misfit barrel - not an uncommon problem if there is going to be a problem with Norks. Gun has withstood one Kaboom due to bullet set back and shoots 1 1/2" groups at 25 metres from a rest. Frame has about 2,000 rds on it barrell less than 300. Gun will last a lifetime and more.

My Nork Commander is now over 1,000 rds and is hardly broke in.

Take Care
The barrel link broke after 300 rounds?
 
cruncher, I would say quit while you are ahead...but you are already behind...lol

look around on various .45 boards, it is very common that alot of top gun tuners and smiths use Norinco slides and parts as the metallurgy is much better than Colt and comparables stuff...Does this make Colt worse? No just that Norinco steel on the .45 is much harder.
 
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