Norinco M14 Blew Up

[Dimitri]

I'm concerned the breech/bolt/receiver may have been overstressed.

The M1 Garand rifle when tested to above and beyond what any other service rifle was tested to to see its design's maximum strength involved (in the same gun mind you not multiple test guns) going from 70,000 to 120,000 in 10,000PSI steps, at 120,000PSI the bolt's left lug cracked and still managed to eat up the 5,000 service rounds it was subjected to.

I am not a gunsmith, nor does my opinion mean anything, but short of having it X-Rayed there is little way to know what kind of damage has happened if any. My opinion is what I'd do, does not mean advice, nor if the rifle fails I have anything to do with it. But I'd keep shooting it myself but that is just me.

Although the Norinco M305/M14S is a well built firearm I believe that the dealers have an obligation no duty to ensure what they are selling is safe and is in proper operating condition.Ensure the barrels are indexed properly and that the headspace is with in the parameters

Savage, for a military rifle heck even a hunting rifle barrel indexing is of no concern for safety. Additionally as for headspace, since the production and tooling was originally set up to arm pro-communist rebels, it stands to reason they saw and still see little reason to worry about a "90%" rifle when that will still go bang and more headspace in a dirty, under cleaned rifle is more desirable then a tight chamber.

You get what you pay for and sometimes you got to decide what is important. What you want in a rifle may not be what you get in a rifle that you decide to buy. That road can only lead to disappointment.

Dimitri

 

[Dogleg]

found the case

Since this morning was only -34 C, I made it back to the range to revisit the scene of the crime, sight in a M700 .204 that I just picked up, try some initial loads and frankly find out how bad of a flinch I may have picked up. Gotta get back on the horse ya know.

Long story short, I found the case. I thought some might be interested. The pictures aren't that great, but one side of the case is blown out at the base and the neck is turned inside out. Actually, since I have all my fingers it's kinda cool. The primer held. To me it looks like the bolt never closed, or opened because it wasn't closed all the way. The fix is simple, I'll just stay with rifles that I close the bolt myself, and/or are incapable of firing with the bolt open.

If anyone is curious about how the bolt gun worked out, one in the 2's, 2 in the 3's and one in the 4's. 4 different loads.

 

[canucklehead]

WOW. Sure looks like an out-of-battery firing to me.

 

[Dimitri]

Brass streching as far as it could before tearing in the front, brass shows a gouge or "slot" like damage near the base, roughly where it was not supported by nether the bolt or the barrel's chamber.

If I was a betting man I'd place 100$ on that being a out of battery fire.

Dimitri

 

[Savage]

I will post the findings tomorrow on the extent of damage to sub assembles and the most likely cause of the failure

 

[dingus]

I will post the findings tomorrow on the extent of damage to sub assembles and the most likely cause of the failure

Great!
i want to know what Happened here before i do anymore shooting with my
M 14.
Sure looks like outa battery fireing. I will be striping my bolt and makeing dam sure theres no Cosmo in there.

 

[RRCo.]

Material here for two stickies:

1. Semi-auto safety issues

2. Reloading for semi-auto safety issues.

Very informative posts. That kind of knowledge and info should be somewhere easily found/noticed.

 

[Hitzy]

Did you pull the trigger on the KB, or did it happen when it cycled the next round?

 

[Hitzy]

Although the Norinco M305/M14S is a well built firearm I believe that the dealers have an obligation no duty to ensure what they are selling is safe and is in proper operating condition.Ensure the barrels are indexed properly and that the headspace is with in the parameters .It is not the buyers responsibilty to have there rifle checked after they buy it to make sure the it is in proper operating condition . These rifles are not sold as used surplus rifles but are sold as new rifles .

Because these rifles are made in the PRC, the importer/distributor here actually becomes the manufacturer in the eyes of the court, so yeah, I agree they should be looking these over much better.
Any injuries from a failure, and the distributor would be on the hook for lots and lots of $$$.

 

[Pathfinder]

Lots to be learned here, I remember having misfires with mine because of Cosmo in the Bolt assembly, Im glad that's worst experience I had with mine.

 

[Dogleg]

Did you pull the trigger on the KB, or did it happen when it cycled the next round?

I pulled the trigger, and it was the last cartridge in the mag.

 

[Hitzy]

I pulled the trigger, and it was the last cartridge in the mag.

Well that's good, sort of. You can rule out your handloads mostly, other then an improperly sized case (you didn't neck size by chance did you?). It was likely an out of spec firing pin, or receiver bridge which caused the round to fire with the bolt out of battery. There is a little cut out in the receiver bridge that is suppose to only allow the firing pin tail to pass through when it's locked up. If the firing pin is too long, or the gap in the bridge is too wide, then it will fire without full lock up.
If it was a slamfire that caused it, I would look at blaming high or soft primers.

 

[tiriaq]

Bolt went foreward, bolt did not rotate all the way to fully lock. Trigger was pulled. Rifle fired only partially locked. Two problems: first, the bolt did not close all the way. Likely an ammunition problem. Second, the rifle should not have fired, if the bolt was not fully locked, as Hitzy has pointed out. Mechanical problem.
Sounds as if the incident resulted from a combination of things.
At the very least, the surviving parts, less receiver and bolt, have residual value, and would not be hard to sell.

 

[Pathfinder]

Kind of makes me appreciate my 102 year old Winchester Hammer gun...

 

[Dogleg]

tiriaq,
If Savage hadn't of rescued it, the receiver was heading for my cutting torch and the mags to the EE. The disecting for science does seem more interesting than my plan, but not quite as satisfying.

 

[Dogleg]

Kind of makes me appreciate my 102 year old Winchester Hammer gun...

Is that a 1897, fire on closing pumpgun?

 

[Pathfinder]

Is that a 1897, fire on closing pumpgun?

Nope, 1892, fires on dropping the hammer lever gun

 

[Dogleg]

Nope, 1892, fires on dropping the hammer lever gun

Much better, and way cooler.

 

[dingus]

I will post the findings tomorrow on the extent of damage to sub assembles and the most likely cause of the failure

So whats it look like caused this Blow up any ideas yet ?

 

[Dogleg]

I'm betting on a bolt that failed to close completely on a handloaded cartridge combined with a rifle design/condition/spec that allows said rifle to fire in this position. If part 2 didn't exist, part 1 wouldn't matter.If part 2 does exist you are a high primer or grain of sand away from carrying your parts home in a pail. Wear your glasses.