OK, You asked for it ... What are the most overrated RIFLE cartridges?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Concerning 30 Cal, I like the guns in which they have been chambered, but the 30-30 and 303 Brit are inferior in all ways to the 308 Win.

The 308 is easily downloaded to 30-30 and 303 Brit levels and uses very common (and excellent) bullets and brass. The 303 requires no discussion, and the common argument that the 30-30 is "more efficient" than the 308 is absurd for a hunting cartridge shot at most a few hundred times during the life of the hunter's use of it - you'll save perhaps a pound of powder over 30 years - if you handload.........
 
pete dobinson said:
I guess one could mention the 7X57 Mauser. Why is there so much love for it. It doesn't fit in a short action. In a standard action the 280 has an advantage as does a 284 win, the later with a sharper shoulder which should have less stretch. So is it the history behind it? or is it an emotional thing? Maybe the rifles it was chambered in. Heck I like the 7X57 myself but there are a lot of better cartridges. The 7-08 is ballisticly the same and fits in a short action.
Click to expand...

7x57 is one of those old school original cartridges like the 375 H&H that will likely linger on forever even though their design only made sense in the era of their creation. Nobody would ever design a cartridge like the 7x57 today.
 
Gatehouse said:
7x57 is one of those old school original cartridges like the 375 H&H that will likely linger on forever even though their design only made sense in the era of their creation. Nobody would ever design a cartridge like the 7x57 today.
Click to expand...

Yup, I agree. I mentioned the 7x57 due to the love that's out there for this cartridge, and I get it, there's nothing wrong with the 7x57. By the same token some people will put down the newer and better designed cartridges. Little changes now lead to bigger changes down the road, at least according to Dr Phil :)
 
pete dobinson said:
I guess one could mention the 7X57 Mauser. Why is there so much love for it. It doesn't fit in a short action. In a standard action the 280 has an advantage as does a 284 win, the later with a sharper shoulder which should have less stretch...
Click to expand...

On the other hand, it does a pretty good job chasing the .270 & .280, and burns a lot less powder doing it. I'm getting over 2,900 fps in my 7x57 with a 140 gr. bullet. I could only get 3000 fps from the .270 with the same weight bullet. It's an efficient little cartridge, and using a standard action lets you seat the bullets out as far as the throat will allow. Don't .284 Win shooters use the same strategy... use a standard action so they can seat the bullets out and maximize case capacity?
 
9.3mauser said:
On the other hand, it does a pretty good job chasing the .270 & .280, and burns a lot less powder doing it. I'm getting over 2,900 fps in my 7x57 with a 140 gr. bullet. I could only get 3000 fps from the .270 with the same weight bullet. It's an efficient little cartridge, and using a standard action lets you seat the bullets out as far as the throat will allow. Don't .284 Win shooters use the same strategy... use a standard action so they can seat the bullets out and maximize case capacity?
Click to expand...

Your correct and I agree that the 7x57 is a good cartridge. I mentioned it because it's a well liked cartridge on this forum. I usually hear about other cartridges being overrated like the 6.5 cm "I'm not a cm owner by the way" or the 270 which I have. You could say any cartridge is overrated. One disadvantage the 7x57 has is it doesn't fit in a short action like the 7-08 or the 284win. So if you want a compact lightweight rifle the 7x57 wouldn't be my first choice. The 284win was Ultra Light Arms #1 chambering for a reason. In a standard length action the 284 can be loaded out long like you mentioned and it has done well in 1000 yard match so it still edges out the 7x57 on a standard length action. As a hunting round there's nothing wrong with the 7x57 or a 270. I was trying to make a point and by mentioning the 7x57 I may have went about it the wrong way :)
 
This should have been a poll.

Hands down #1 is definitely 6.5 CM.

No other cartridge in history owes its success more to a "flashy" name and slick marketing campaign.

There were allready a handful of cartridges on the market thst would do everything a 6.5 CM could do and better .....?
 
owlowl said:
The great abundance of 7 WSM, 300 WSM, 270 WSM, 243 WSSM all around you might tell you something. Or the lack thereof.
Click to expand...

So you do not have any facts to go along with your statement that the Short mags have (a) significantly worse barrel life, (b) most inefficient usage of powder ?
track said:
Hmmm, 140 fps? That must be a reduced load, what 300 H&H load data where you using for your rifle?
Click to expand...

Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]30-06 Spring[/B]
Bullet             : .308, [B]180, Nosler PARTITION[/B] SP 16331
Useable Case Capaci: 62.202 grain H2O = 4.039 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : [B]24.0 inch[/B] = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: [B]62000 psi[/B], or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

109 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                 104.0     64.1     4.15    2940    99.9    59828   10865   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  94.8     57.0     3.70    2893   100.0    62000    9659   1.116  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                 101.2     56.5     3.66    2860   100.0    62000    9528   1.129  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      99.5     58.9     3.82    2847    99.3    62000    9900   1.129  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                 104.0     59.6     3.86    2841    97.4    61801   10099   1.125  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        93.8     56.9     3.69    2836    98.8    62000    9872   1.133  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      93.8     56.9     3.69    2836    98.8    62000    9872   1.133  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       104.0     61.3     3.97    2833    95.2    58704   10403   1.150  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     95.9     56.2     3.64    2827    99.9    62000    9630   1.140  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                       97.7     56.0     3.63    2818    99.9    62000    9449   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           103.6     56.9     3.69    2809    99.9    62000    9296   1.144  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    104.0     60.9     3.95    2809    94.2    56051   10602   1.176  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      84.4     53.9     3.49    2805   100.0    62000    9007   1.140  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game                    89.4     54.6     3.54    2805   100.0    62000    9042   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            89.1     51.1     3.31    2798   100.0    62000    9050   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 104.0     60.3     3.91    2790    96.3    55624   10315   1.163  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15                  89.9     51.6     3.34    2790   100.0    62000    9037   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       84.8     53.1     3.44    2782   100.0    62000    8812   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        91.3     53.5     3.46    2781    99.8    62000    9174   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                      101.2     56.8     3.68    2777    98.2    62000    9322   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350                            99.3     56.6     3.67    2777    98.3    62000    9307   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                            91.9     51.8     3.36    2776   100.0    62000    8703   1.138  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       86.9     49.8     3.23    2774   100.0    62000    8750   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC                   104.0     60.3     3.91    2774    94.6    59792    9731   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron                    95.2     53.9     3.49    2764    98.6    62000    9173   1.142  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET                      92.9     51.5     3.34    2760   100.0    62000    8750   1.145  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                            93.4     50.6     3.28    2750   100.0    62000    8569   1.150  ! Near Maximum !

Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]300 H.& H. Mag[/B].
Bullet             : .308, [B]180, Nosler PARTITION[/B] SP 16331
Useable Case Capaci: 76.294 grain H2O = 4.954 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.600 inch = 91.44 mm
Barrel Length      : [B]24.0 inch[/B] = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: [B]62000 psi[/B], or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

134 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                  97.7     73.9     4.79    3096   100.0    62000   12908   1.104  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    100.5     72.2     4.68    3051    97.3    62000   13288   1.102  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                        99.4     71.8     4.65    3043    97.7    62000   12895   1.093  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    100.7     75.3     4.88    3035    95.8    62000   13330   1.126  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 100.6     71.5     4.63    3027    98.7    62000   12811   1.110  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     100.8     77.2     5.00    3019    99.2    62000   12343   1.115  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23                 102.9     70.8     4.59    3008   100.0    62000   11584   1.115  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  88.3     65.1     4.22    3007   100.0    62000   11443   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25                 104.0     72.7     4.71    3002   100.0    57314   12458   1.127  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                  97.5     68.6     4.45    2982    98.6    62000   12201   1.113  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                  94.3     64.6     4.19    2980   100.0    62000   11300   1.122  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      93.1     67.6     4.38    2979    99.9    62000   11833   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      87.9     65.4     4.24    2973    99.6    62000   11857   1.120  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        87.9     65.4     4.24    2973    99.6    62000   11857   1.120  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC                    99.0     70.4     4.56    2957    96.9    62000   12022   1.110  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     89.9     64.6     4.19    2956   100.0    62000   11441   1.129  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                            97.0     65.3     4.23    2937   100.0    62000   11052   1.133  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                       95.3     65.6     4.25    2922    99.2    62000   11278   1.122  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron                   100.2     68.6     4.44    2922    97.1    62000   11662   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350                            93.6     65.4     4.24    2922    99.3    62000   11256   1.122  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15                  84.4     59.4     3.85    2919   100.0    62000   10755   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 94.9     64.6     4.19    2918   100.0    62000   10407   1.127  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron                    89.9     62.4     4.05    2908    99.5    62000   11080   1.123  ! Near Maximum !
 
308 and 3006 wouldn’t exist if the 7.5x55 was made in “merica”. 7.5 Swiss is about the perfect case for 30 cal, and beat the 30-30 to production by 4 years or so, 1889 if memory serves. Both 308 and 06 are great cartridges, do and have done what they were designed for. The 7.5 design was built beyond its time by 100 years, didn’t get any love this side of the pond. To me, the 30-30 can’t be classified as overrated, never got close to any rating. The WSM and RSAUM are overrated.
 
the 7.5x55 was designed when powders were less than they are today. it is an excellent cartridge, but has too much volume for todays powders. it was used to develop the .308
 
todbartell said:
So you do not have any facts to go along with your statement that the Short mags have (a) significantly worse barrel life, (b) most inefficient usage of powder ?




Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]30-06 Spring[/B]
Bullet             : .308, [B]180, Nosler PARTITION[/B] SP 16331
Useable Case Capaci: 62.202 grain H2O = 4.039 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : [B]24.0 inch[/B] = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: [B]62000 psi[/B], or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

109 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                 104.0     64.1     4.15    2940    99.9    59828   10865   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  94.8     57.0     3.70    2893   100.0    62000    9659   1.116  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                 101.2     56.5     3.66    2860   100.0    62000    9528   1.129  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      99.5     58.9     3.82    2847    99.3    62000    9900   1.129  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                 104.0     59.6     3.86    2841    97.4    61801   10099   1.125  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        93.8     56.9     3.69    2836    98.8    62000    9872   1.133  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      93.8     56.9     3.69    2836    98.8    62000    9872   1.133  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                       104.0     61.3     3.97    2833    95.2    58704   10403   1.150  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     95.9     56.2     3.64    2827    99.9    62000    9630   1.140  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350                       97.7     56.0     3.63    2818    99.9    62000    9449   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                           103.6     56.9     3.69    2809    99.9    62000    9296   1.144  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    104.0     60.9     3.95    2809    94.2    56051   10602   1.176  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223                      84.4     53.9     3.49    2805   100.0    62000    9007   1.140  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game                    89.4     54.6     3.54    2805   100.0    62000    9042   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895                            89.1     51.1     3.31    2798   100.0    62000    9050   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 104.0     60.3     3.91    2790    96.3    55624   10315   1.163  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15                  89.9     51.6     3.34    2790   100.0    62000    9037   1.148  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2                       84.8     53.1     3.44    2782   100.0    62000    8812   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380                        91.3     53.5     3.46    2781    99.8    62000    9174   1.151  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                      101.2     56.8     3.68    2777    98.2    62000    9322   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350                            99.3     56.6     3.67    2777    98.3    62000    9307   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320                            91.9     51.8     3.36    2776   100.0    62000    8703   1.138  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895                       86.9     49.8     3.23    2774   100.0    62000    8750   1.152  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC                   104.0     60.3     3.91    2774    94.6    59792    9731   1.139  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron                    95.2     53.9     3.49    2764    98.6    62000    9173   1.142  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET                      92.9     51.5     3.34    2760   100.0    62000    8750   1.145  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064                            93.4     50.6     3.28    2750   100.0    62000    8569   1.150  ! Near Maximum !

Code: 
Cartridge          : .[B]300 H.& H. Mag[/B].
Bullet             : .308, [B]180, Nosler PARTITION[/B] SP 16331
Useable Case Capaci: 76.294 grain H2O = 4.954 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.600 inch = 91.44 mm
Barrel Length      : [B]24.0 inch[/B] = 609.6 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: [B]62000 psi[/B], or 427 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 104 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

134 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 80%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26                  97.7     73.9     4.79    3096   100.0    62000   12908   1.104  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560                    100.5     72.2     4.68    3051    97.3    62000   13288   1.102  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC                        99.4     71.8     4.65    3043    97.7    62000   12895   1.093  ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO                    100.7     75.3     4.88    3035    95.8    62000   13330   1.126  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22                 100.6     71.5     4.63    3027    98.7    62000   12811   1.110  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum                     100.8     77.2     5.00    3019    99.2    62000   12343   1.115  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23                 102.9     70.8     4.59    3008   100.0    62000   11584   1.115  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17                  88.3     65.1     4.22    3007   100.0    62000   11443   1.112  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25                 104.0     72.7     4.71    3002   100.0    57314   12458   1.127  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19                  97.5     68.6     4.45    2982    98.6    62000   12201   1.113  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16                  94.3     64.6     4.19    2980   100.0    62000   11300   1.122  ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter                      93.1     67.6     4.38    2979    99.9    62000   11833   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760                      87.9     65.4     4.24    2973    99.6    62000   11857   1.120  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414                        87.9     65.4     4.24    2973    99.6    62000   11857   1.120  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC                    99.0     70.4     4.56    2957    96.9    62000   12022   1.110  ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550                     89.9     64.6     4.19    2956   100.0    62000   11441   1.129  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831                            97.0     65.3     4.23    2937   100.0    62000   11052   1.133  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350                       95.3     65.6     4.25    2922    99.2    62000   11278   1.122  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4955 Enduron                   100.2     68.6     4.44    2922    97.1    62000   11662   1.118  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350                            93.6     65.4     4.24    2922    99.3    62000   11256   1.122  ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15                  84.4     59.4     3.85    2919   100.0    62000   10755   1.135  ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V                 94.9     64.6     4.19    2918   100.0    62000   10407   1.127  ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4451 Enduron                    89.9     62.4     4.05    2908    99.5    62000   11080   1.123  ! Near Maximum !
Click to expand...

According to these formulas, I guess you stand correct. Regarding powder charge, is it set at minimum or maximum?
 
track said:
According to these formulas, I guess you stand correct. Regarding powder charge, is it set at minimum or maximum?
Click to expand...


Judging from the pressures listed and the !Near Maximum! warnings listed I think it's reasonable to assume the charges listed are at the upper end of the scale rather than the lower end. :)
 
Gatehouse said:
Judging from the pressures listed and the !Near Maximum! warnings listed I think it's reasonable to assume the charges listed are at the upper end of the scale rather than the lower end. :)
Click to expand...

Later I noticed when I cross referenced from reloading manuals, noted that it is the maximum load. For the 180 gr. it's about 140 to 150 fps difference, however with the 150 gr. and 165 gr. there is a more notable difference, up to 280 fps.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom