Old Time Grizzly Guns

I don't understand the attitude of minimalists. If I'm out and about with my .223, I'll carry a magazine full of TSX loads in case an emergency arises, but I don't choose a .223 or a .243 specifically for bear work. To my way of thinking, proper bear cartridges begin with the 180 gr .30/06. I usually feel adequately armed with an '06 in hand, but when considering the possibility of facing a half ton bear at bad breath range, a big case .375 appeals to my sense of proportion.
 
A very good friend of my mine was a fan of the .35 Remington and used it for years and shot a lot of deer with it. One year he had a monster buck come out at 25 yards and he shot it near the shoulder and dropped it in his tracks. The deer fell down and thrashed all over the place. He kept his sights on it and was waiting for it to stop thrashing so he could shoot it again. The buck suddenly sprang to his feet and took off. He waited 20 minutes and then started tracking. He followed the blood trail for about 300 yards and it eventually petered out. We spent 2 whole days out of a 5 day hunt searching for that buck and never recovered him. After that year, he bought Remington 7600 Weathermaster in 30-06 with a 1x4 Leup and never wounded an animal again.

Marginal calibres will work a lot of the time but better calibres will work better.

People used marginal calibres in the old days because it's all they had and they didn't know any better.
 
Boomer said:
I don't understand the attitude of minimalists. If I'm out and about with my .223, I'll carry a magazine full of TSX loads in case an emergency arises, but I don't choose a .223 or a .243 specifically for bear work. To my way of thinking, proper bear cartridges begin with the 180 gr .30/06. I usually feel adequately armed with an '06 in hand, but when considering the possibility of facing a half ton bear at bad breath range, a big case .375 appeals to my sense of proportion.
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Minimalists is the wrong word people used what thay had back in the day you buy a box of shells and you wear good for the next 15 to 20 years
wages wear low ther wasn't a pile of money to spend on the lates and grates so if all you have is a 30-30 that's what you used
Many Remote communities in Canada it is still like that work is hard to come bye and low wages plus skyrocketing inflation is forcing many people to work with what thay have and not with what thy want
 
Superbrad said:
I'm getting a beer....... pee will ensue.....

We also need a picture of the old grandma who killed one with a .22 ....... that should be along shortly....
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Johnn Peterson said:
I've posted this photo previously. In '55, we moved to downtown Barkerville from downtown Edmonton and lived there for five months. One of our neighbours were Mr. & Mrs. Wendle. Long story short, Mrs. Betty Wendle was well known for her forte of Grizzly hunting and using a 99 Savage in 22 Savage High Power. How's that as a calibre choice for Grizz??

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Lol.....
 
Slooshark1 said:
A very good friend of my mine was a fan of the .35 Remington and used it for years and shot a lot of deer with it. One year he had a monster buck come out at 25 yards and he shot it near the shoulder and dropped it in his tracks. The deer fell down and thrashed all over the place. He kept his sights on it and was waiting for it to stop thrashing so he could shoot it again. The buck suddenly sprang to his feet and took off. He waited 20 minutes and then started tracking. He followed the blood trail for about 300 yards and it eventually petered out. We spent 2 whole days out of a 5 day hunt searching for that buck and never recovered him. After that year, he bought Remington 7600 Weathermaster in 30-06 with a 1x4 Leup and never wounded an animal again.

Marginal calibres will work a lot of the time but better calibres will work better.

People used marginal calibres in the old days because it's all they had and they didn't know any better.
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There is no possible way that a 35 remington can be considered a "marginal" deer gun at 25 yards.
 
I think people should use enough calibre and learn to shoot it well. I personally like the 35 Whelen and 358 Norma Mag but 06 is pretty much a do everything cartridge with more manageable recoil.

As far as the 35 Remington not working on a deer, we never recovered the deer and I didn't see where he hit it, only listened to his testimony. Maybe the bullet flattened out on a shoulder blade. Maybe he hit it at a weird angle and didn't enter the chest cavity. We'll never know. But he was discouraged enough to upgrade.

My dad and uncle both use the 35 Remington with good results but have also never shot a larger animal with it. Now I'm sure on a standing broadside animal under 100 yards it would be deadly, but conditions are not always perfect in real life.
 
Likely back in the day it was mostly trappers checking lines that encountered the odd Grizz and used the 25-20's 30-30's etc, not actively going out after Grizz with those cartridges.
However there was a much more aggressive predator extermination plan in the US turn of the century, and they probably used more adequate cartridges for the specific tasks.
 
heronfish said:
There is no possible way that a 35 remington can be considered a "marginal" deer gun at 25 yards.
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I know of and hunt with many people who use a Marlin 336 in 35 Remington. I've done the same myself in years past and will most likely do it again in the future. We use them for moose though.
 
Johnn Peterson said:
I've posted this photo previously. In '55, we moved to downtown Barkerville from downtown Edmonton and lived there for five months. One of our neighbours were Mr. & Mrs. Wendle. Long story short, Mrs. Betty Wendle was well known for her forte of Grizzly hunting and using a 99 Savage in 22 Savage High Power. How's that as a calibre choice for Grizz??

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.22 hi power is a 30-30 cartridge necked down to .22 isn't it? I like the way you're able to tie both arguments in with one post.
 
Slooshark1 said:
I think people should use enough calibre and learn to shoot it well. I personally like the 35 Whelen and 358 Norma Mag but 06 is pretty much a do everything cartridge with more manageable recoil.

As far as the 35 Remington not working on a deer, we never recovered the deer and I didn't see where he hit it, only listened to his testimony. Maybe the bullet flattened out on a shoulder blade. Maybe he hit it at a weird angle and didn't enter the chest cavity. We'll never know. But he was discouraged enough to upgrade.

My dad and uncle both use the 35 Remington with good results but have also never shot a larger animal with it. Now I'm sure on a standing broadside animal under 100 yards it would be deadly, but conditions are not always perfect in real life.
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Where does that logic end though, must we all tote our 338 lapuas, African doubles and 50 bmgs into the deer woods?
Because those options are for more rifle than what you are carrying.

In the real world, if you hit a deer in the front leg with a 3030, 35 rem, 35 Whelen or 450 nitro, that deer is going to run a long ways.
 
Remington Model 8 (circa 1906) :cool: -

Remington_Autoloading_zps6vr62ozi.jpg
 
carverk said:
Minimalists is the wrong word people used what thay had back in the day you buy a box of shells and you wear good for the next 15 to 20 years
wages wear low ther wasn't a pile of money to spend on the lates and grates so if all you have is a 30-30 that's what you used
Many Remote communities in Canada it is still like that work is hard to come bye and low wages plus skyrocketing inflation is forcing many people to work with what thay have and not with what thy want
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No, what you're talking about is subsistance hunting which is another topic entirely. The minimalists are those who believe it's proper to champion unreasonably small cartridges for the purposes of sport hunting, with the excuse that if it's good enough for great grampa Jones, or the Inuit, it should be good for everyone.
 
Slooshark1 said:
A very good friend of my mine was a fan of the .35 Remington and used it for years and shot a lot of deer with it. One year he had a monster buck come out at 25 yards and he shot it near the shoulder and dropped it in his tracks. The deer fell down and thrashed all over the place. He kept his sights on it and was waiting for it to stop thrashing so he could shoot it again. The buck suddenly sprang to his feet and took off. He waited 20 minutes and then started tracking. He followed the blood trail for about 300 yards and it eventually petered out. We spent 2 whole days out of a 5 day hunt searching for that buck and never recovered him. After that year, he bought Remington 7600 Weathermaster in 30-06 with a 1x4 Leup and never wounded an animal again.

Marginal calibres will work a lot of the time but better calibres will work better.

People used marginal calibres in the old days because it's all they had and they didn't know any better.
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I'm sorry but this post is ridiculous......
First with the 30-30 is marginal for whitetail comment and now this.

"My Buddy used a 35 Rem for years and shot a lot of deer with it"

But......Then he shot one that got away and the cartridge is suddenly inadequate?

So now that he has the 30-06 he'll never wound an animal again?

Plenty of guys/gals wound plenty of game every year with 22lr right up to 375H&H. If the Hunter does their part and does it knowing the limitations of the equipment they're using, then a 30-30 or 35 Rem is hardly marginal for deer.


But Hey...... this was a Grizzly thread.

Making a comment like:
"People used marginal caliber's in the old days cause they didn't know any better" is pretty ignorant IMO.
 
Bell killed a thousand elephants with a 7x57, today I know few man that would carry a 7x57 in bear country let alone Elephant country....lol!



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GMC403 said:
If the Hunter does their part and does it knowing the limitations of the equipment they're using, then a 30-30 or 35 Rem is hardly marginal for deer...
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You can argue cartridges and cartridge/platform limitations until the cows come home... but in my experience, having hunted big game for four decades, the biggest limitation is on the opposite end from the muzzle... people seriously need to learn "their" limitations and focus on staying within them... I have seen some horrendous shooters in hunting camp's over the years... it wouldn't make one iota of difference in the outcome if they were shooting trapdoor loads in a .45/70 or MAX loads from a .300 RUM... as a matter of fact, for these people, I would vastly prefer to see them with the .45/70, at least the equipmemt would not elevate their expectations to an unreasonable level, which likely increases the likelyhood of wounded game. In the outfitting game, a big part of the job is learning what kind of person/skill level you are dealing with and controlling the circumstances for them to be successful while at the same time avoiding shooting opportunities that are beyond their ability.

In the black bear game, we always had stands that netted close broadside shots, and that is where we placed "shaky shooters"... controlling emotions is a big part of the picture also.
 
A few things come to mind with regards to this thread,

-You can kill things with far smaller guns than standard. It isn't always a good idea, I do it too when weight is a worry, but because it's been done by no means translates into the majority of average shots are overgunned.

-Not all Grizzlies are created equal, many are only half again bigger than black bears, die just as easily, but they do have a far more tenacious disposition and if they make the alders problems can turn into disasters quickly.

-The .25-20 nonsense is ridiculous, sure it's possible, but I haven't seen more than one bullet exit on coastal Grizzlies and that's up to .375 Ruger.

-In the good ole days wounding wasn't as much a concern, nor were modern ethics. Grizzlies were vermin in those times, and much different standards were accepted in their treatment.

-I struggle to believe MiG25's grandfather killed fifty, and just like the bible believe there is some underpinning of truth to a rather exaggerated set of stories. Unless MiG25 is having fun with us, I suspect even some photos may be in the family archives as many hunters in BC have killed Grizzlies, especially historically, often with guns not terribly well suited to the task. It's not an overly remarkable achievement here, and many hunters here have grandparents who've killed Grizzlies with .30-30s or .25-35s, and so what?

-The old timers were also no smarter than you. They were human, and while legend making is a fun hobby often the old timers were ill equipped, operated in times of far higher game numbers, with a much more casual take on shot selection and the risks of wounding.

In the end, I want to know what the OP's end argument and position is. If it's just to stir the conversation stew he's succeeded handily.
 
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