Old Time Grizzly Guns

[Lonesome Donkey]

Tell that to the people in Port Simson Yokon that have to pay $217 for a 18 lb roast ,$12 fore 4 l liter of milk and still have to put diapers on there kids and it the fresh produce that really cost big money and Still need School supplies and winter clothing etc. wen a $20 box of 30-30 or a 243 can put a moose in the freezer for next 10 to 15 years

There is a big difference from a city guy that go hunting for two weeks each year
Compared to Sumone from up north that lives and works in grizzly country on a day-to-day basis
High school I spent in Stewart BC/hyder Alaska we would have grizzly bears in the yard all the time
I go into bear Country packing nothing but a 22 LR and fell perfectly safe but I would not go out of my way to hunt grizys with a 22 LR

Sir, it is obvious that we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

I do respect your opinion but I also believe that my own has validity.

Reloading may not be a viable option in your area, as you say, if you only use a single box of .30-30 purchased for $20.00 in a city each year.

Also, NOTHING that I stated anywhere said that hunting was NOT a necessity for those living in your area to save money.
How you could have inferred that from anything that I said about endorsing reloading is completely baffling.

In any case, our little discussion has devolved into a silly testosterone-charged argument between two bulls.

As a result, the thread had been hijacked, which was never my intention.

Let's end this here and allow discussion to resume.

Peace.

 

[Superbrad]

Carverk....... it sounds like you should organize a group buy for your area.....

 

[H4831]

Lonesome Donkey, Carverk knows what the wilderness north was like and you don't. Instead of listening and learning from him, you are trying to tell him he is wrong.
Going back 75 or so years, many northerners travelled in the bush constantly, often in a wilderness frequented by grizzly and they never carried any firearm larger than a 22.
carver, I imagine when you were at the Stewart BC, Hyder Alaska area there was a wide open border between Canada and the US.

 

[Lonesome Donkey]

Lonesome Donkey, Carverk knows what the wilderness north was like and you don't. Instead of listening and learning from him, you are trying to tell him he is wrong.
Going back 75 or so years, many northerners travelled in the bush constantly, often in a wilderness frequented by grizzly and they never carried any firearm larger than a 22.
carver, I imagine when you were at the Stewart BC, Hyder Alaska area there was a wide open border between Canada and the US.

With respect, I never attempted to tell Carvek that he was wrong about hunting with any caliber, or about hunting anything in the Wilderness North.
I fully agree that he knows far more than I ever will about hunting and living in the Wilderness North.

But then, my argument was never about that. It was simply about whether it was viable for SOME northerners to reload, as well as those who are not northerners to reload.

I believe that for some that limited reloading is viable, and I have had good friends living in Wilderness Northern areas of Alberta who did just that.
They had to gather their supplies annually and ration them, but it was very viable.

I also agreed with him that for some living in Wilderness Northern areas that reloading was NOT a viable option.

Are you saying that limited reloading by some people living in Wilderness Northern areas is NEVER an option?

 

[carverk]

Carverk....... it sounds like you should organize a group buy for your area.....

I just stick to rifles I can get ammo for
deer I like the 308 but a have a 223 barrel if the Co-op runs out 308 for backup and a 22lr as a last ditch option if ther is no 308 or 223 ammo available
Group buy will not work we have 70% unimportant we get by hunting and gathering
hunting is not a sport in small northern towns it serious business and can make the difference of eating or going hungry and a guy will use whatever he has to and use what ever is available
The young city guys make jokes of us northern Country guys using 22 LR but this is a day to day reality wen you go north and you do whatever it takes to put food on the table
It all a matter of prospective my way of thinking is going to be a lot different from a guy that grew up in the city not just hunting but just about on everything
A hunting guid will have a difrent prospective as his businesses to keep a client happy and want to get a trophy animal quickly
A trapper same thing he to will have quite the difference prospective from the hunting guid

 

[carverk]

Lonesome Donkey, Carverk knows what the wilderness north was like and you don't. Instead of listening and learning from him, you are trying to tell him he is wrong.
Going back 75 or so years, many northerners travelled in the bush constantly, often in a wilderness frequented by grizzly and they never carried any firearm larger than a 22.
carver, I imagine when you were at the Stewart BC, Hyder Alaska area there was a wide open border between Canada and the US.

I spent quite a bit Of time robbing fish creek in Hyder it is fun poaching salmon and fishing right beside the Grizzlies as a kid
Growing up with dears I have a high tolerance for them and quite comfortable with them it's city people make me nervous shood start a city people Defense thread Haahaa
getting Chase buy the alaskan Game warden was sport and a right of passage haahaa
Other then the game warden ther was no real law in Hyder it was the Wild West when you cross the border
We ran illegal fire crackers a cross the border on a old bootleg trail we made more money than the drug dealers and bootleggers

 

[Brutus]

A very good friend of my mine was a fan of the .35 Remington and used it for years and shot a lot of deer with it. One year he had a monster buck come out at 25 yards and he shot it near the shoulder and dropped it in his tracks. The deer fell down and thrashed all over the place. He kept his sights on it and was waiting for it to stop thrashing so he could shoot it again. The buck suddenly sprang to his feet and took off. He waited 20 minutes and then started tracking. He followed the blood trail for about 300 yards and it eventually petered out. We spent 2 whole days out of a 5 day hunt searching for that buck and never recovered him. After that year, he bought Remington 7600 Weathermaster in 30-06 with a 1x4 Leup and never wounded an animal again.

Marginal calibres will work a lot of the time but better calibres will work better.

People used marginal calibres in the old days because it's all they had and they didn't know any better.

So, if the deer was never recovered, exactly how does he really know where he hit the live animal in the very first place??

This seems like a logical question to myself, considering the circumstances of a lost big game animal.
To myself this reads more like poor shot placement from the shooter. And not the "tool's fault."

I suspect he did better with the 30-06 because he learned the hard way, not to let buck fever over rule his senses.

 

[H4831]

For northern hunters in remote areas, reloading is no option, whatsoever, in my opinion. That is why they like very common calibres of rifles, that they can get the ammunition for at any area store.

 

[MiG25]

I'm reading some more stuff I found that my Grandfather wrote, this time on goats.

"Goats shot for trophies or at long ranges must be shot in the body, a body well protected by an extremely fine bullet spooling wool and a tough shock resistant anatomy that can give th slower bullets a rough time. I remember plastering a dignified Billy with so many 38-55's I had run out of excuses. The range wasn't much over the hundred yards and I retained this by advancing as he slowly walked away. Until a chance discovery of a spent bullet lying on the crusted snow neatly wrapped with blood stained goat silk. Realizing what was happening I closed in quickly as he momentarily moved out of sight and dispatched him with a head shot. Tough as a goat might be his head is extremely delicate and although the rest of his carcass will pretty well endure a tumble down high ledges the head will always be demolished. A 22 bullet finds little resistance in reading his brain without blasting it to kingdom come as would a larger weapon but the controversial plinker is illegal.

The goat would still be quite safe in the cliffs if it were not for the flat shooting magnums and believe me it takes a good hit even with these.

Little, in fact practically nothing is ever said of this real king of the heights. Maybe because trophy wise he loses his impressiveness once his rather small head has been hung in the trophy room as an excellent dust collector. To retain his otherwise aloof ruggedness he must be completed in silhouette. Taxidermist although capable of pretty fair recreations on most game, fail to bring the goat back. I have yet to see one that even began to satisfy me and I'm talking about top notch taxidermists.

As a cliff dweller, on this continent he has no peer. His year round domicile is the most rugged of the high mountains from which no amount of winter ever evicts hims as with other seasonal dwellers. In marten trapping days I was always awed to see from the valley of course, his tracks boldly dotting from pinnacle to pinnacle in cliff so vertical even snow has difficulty clinging and avalanches rumble through through the night. The few times I have seen their tracks crossing the high mountain valleys served only to heighten my respect. How can such a large animal practically walk on top of snow so soft that my snowshoes find no bottom. He weighs 200-350 pounds and sinks only a few inches, I weighed at the time under 200 pounds complete with field pack and yet sank at least three times as much on good snowshoes.

It might be advisable to add here that nannies, females of the specie as only half the size of their adult spouses. The average goat hunter unhindered by ### regulations and aided by gregarious habits of the nannies usually finds his trophy room adorned with a female representative. Large solitary billies are much harder to come by. It takes a real expert to accurately estimate the size of a lone billy. The nanny has longer but slenderer horns with the head showing distinctly feminine features at room range, whereas in the glamour of the high places may be mistaken for a him.

Indians show great respect for this animal ...(goes on to various superstitions and believes).

Indian moccasins made from goat skins tanned with the hair on but clipped short are hard to beat for rock climbing when worn with the hair side out. Those who have tried dragging a goat across even a smooth rock surface know the tenacious clinging qualities of goat hair. Just try dragging a goat through snow, might as well drag the whole mountain.

Mountain men can tell from goat activity the kind of weather to expect. This applies to undisturbed animals as nothing with drive spooked goats out of their hideout.

Properly aged, goat meat from males under 4 years and not too old nannies is excellent. It has a certain taste not unlike mutton and is well marbled, in fact if you desire meat with fat long after the other wild game has leaned out try a goat in the prime of life. My favourite is jerked goat meat slow cured over a low fire. Has what it takes to keep lifting that snowshoe long after eight hours."

 

[H4831]

Mig25, why don't you tell us the name of your once quite well known grandfather, who wrote several books, you have stated.
Some of us may have heard of him, or at least read, or heard of, a book of his. Early in this thread I asked you if you would send a PM to me with his name. If you don't want to put his name on the internet, PM it to me, I won't let it get any further, if you say so.
Bruce

 

[j_06]

Mig25, why don't you tell us the name of your once quite well known grandfather, who wrote several books, you have stated.
Some of us may have heard of him, or at least read, or heard of, a book of his. Early in this thread I asked you if you would send a PM to me with his name. If you don't want to put his name on the internet, PM it to me, I won't let it get any further, if you say so.
Bruce

Should start asking a few members in here how they like their crow served. You first though, "Mig25, whoever told you all that stuff knew absolutely nothing about old time hunting, or else he was just "pulling your leg.""

 

[bearkilr]

For northern hunters in remote areas, reloading is no option, whatsoever, in my opinion. That is why they like very common calibres of rifles, that they can get the ammunition for at any area store.

The reason is that most aren't interested in reloading, and that may be due to economical reasons. A couple of boxes of 308 and a brick of 22LR doesn't cost nearly as much as a whole set up.
If they get mail, they can get reloading supplies. The nearest store for reloading supplies for me is a 3 hr. drive. I get everything by mail, and there's no delivery other than Canada Post here.

 

[carverk]

I

The reason is that most aren't interested in reloading, and that may be due to economical reasons. A couple of boxes of 308 and a brick of 22LR doesn't cost nearly as much as a whole set up.
If they get mail, they can get reloading supplies. The nearest store for reloading supplies for me is a 3 hr. drive. I get everything by mail, and there's no delivery other than Canada Post here.

It's not just that ,I have all the equipment but trying to find somebody to walk you through the process is difficult plus with working in camps just compounds the problem .
Living in Remote community you learn to keep things simple
It's easy for city guys to criticize us and pull the morals card but in reality thay com up here on the weekend hunt a few days and drive back to the city
wear for us hunting is a about spending time at home and not a weekend excursion with the boys

One Moose hunt I wound up doing a somersault on my Rokon and damaged my 308 I had a Rossi 92 in the truck and only had a box of 38 special !
so I changed my hunting techniques had to look for moose bedded down and look for a head shot less then 30 yards
distance is the grate equalizer and stalking game in close is the difference when you can smell the hair on a moose deer or bear your close enough to take the shot

One deer I got on Haida Gwaii I was having a poo in the bush wen I smelt a strong older of wet fur I wasn't hunting on that trip but was fishing I went back to the boat and had a coffee and waiting for the deer to bed down 1 hr later I went back with a 223
I found the deer right wear I smelt him well taking my crap
shot him less then 10 yard away one shot to the head finished him off
I posted photo befor

 

[Ryefulman]

My grandfather in the 50s said when he was in the fields and spotted a deer close enough he would shoot them with his 22 in the eye,then continue his work on the tractor til he got around to it and by then it was done twitching at which point he would skin it.
I always thought he was full of it til I saw my uncle do it when I was about 12.
Weren't more than 50 or so meters away,with open sight single shot 22s.
I've shot one last year with my 243,but prior to that I always used my 30-30. It was all I had. Open sight.
Our cabin didn't have anywhere that gave you more than 50-60 meters for a clear shot so high power,big guns were overkill in that type of brush.
Hunting grizzlies with those calibers is insanity. Unless you make a perfect shot all you've done is anger it. So I hope he rifle has a magazine.
If I was in that position and it was close enough I'd go for a head shot. And hope for the best.
But to be honest without enough gun I think I'd just hope it did t notice me.

 

[carverk]

i will stick with 308 for big game and my 22 for small game and wen time allows for I use my spear
I'm no better or worse then a guy hunting with 243 for moose or the city guy hunting with elephant rifle

 

[fuzzzbert]

I'm sorry but this post is ridiculous......
First with the 30-30 is marginal for whitetail comment and now this.

"My Buddy used a 35 Rem for years and shot a lot of deer with it"

But......Then he shot one that got away and the cartridge is suddenly inadequate?

So now that he has the 30-06 he'll never wound an animal again?

Plenty of guys/gals wound plenty of game every year with 22lr right up to 375H&H. If the Hunter does their part and does it knowing the limitations of the equipment they're using, then a 30-30 or 35 Rem is hardly marginal for deer.


But Hey...... this was a Grizzly thread.

Making a comment like:
"People used marginal caliber's in the old days cause they didn't know any better" is pretty ignorant IMO.

Agree.

 

[H4831]

Should start asking a few members in here how they like their crow served. You first though, "Mig25, whoever told you all that stuff knew absolutely nothing about old time hunting, or else he was just "pulling your leg.""

When someone posts something that I know from personal experience to be hog was, I am apt to tell them so.
When someone, whether the same person or not, posts an interesting, logical sounding post, I am also apt to tell them it is good, which I have done in this thread.

 

[j_06]

When someone posts something that I know from personal experience to be hog was, I am apt to tell them so.
When someone, whether the same person or not, posts an interesting, logical sounding post, I am also apt to tell them it is good, which I have done in this thread.

Indeed. Just seems few people calling bs on others at the first hint of something the doesn't mimic their experiences or perceptions. I just had to lump you in after it we learned someobe did in fact know a thing or two about hunting it seems

 

[carverk]

People That are not comfortable being around Grizly Bears shood pack as big of a rifle thay can shoot
Same wen I am working as a wildlife monitor I pack a 12 gage to make other workers feel safe the 12 gage is not for my benefit
But wen you grow up with bears you have a different outlook
it's like having a dog we always had dogs but thay we're always outside dogs and not allowed in the house my tolerance for house dogs is vary low and find it disgusting having them in the house but appreciate a good upside dogs
Others find keeping a dog outsid is abusive

 

[hoytcanon]

People That are not comfortable being around Grizly Bears shood pack as big of a rifle thay can shoot
Same wen I am working as a wildlife monitor I pack a 12 gage to make other workers feel safe the 12 gage is not for my benefit
But wen you grow up with bears you have a different outlook
it's like having a dog we always had dogs but thay we're always outside dogs and not allowed in the house my tolerance for house dogs is vary low and find it disgusting having them in the house but appreciate a good upside dogs
Others find keeping a dog outsid is abusive

The difference is when a dog "loses it" you get a bite in the calf (ask me how I know)... when a bear loses it, you get your face ripped off... I remember a dude that was pretty comfortable with bears, even lived with them and introduced his girlfriend to them...