Parker hale m82-m87-C3-C3A1 Rifles
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Does anybody know what the correct serial number for the C3A1 should be. For example I've got a couple beech C3A1 stocks from the McMillan A2 upgrade program. Serial numbers in the barrel channels are 00275 and 00429. Are these complete SN's? Would the rifles still be in service?
Just thought that I'd ad my 2 cents. I have a photo hanging on my wall of when I was range staff for CFSAC in '99. We have C3's in the photo and they clearly have McMillan fiberglass stocks. Don't know if they made a special appearance because it was CFSAC or if some some units had already done the conversion. I was staff for the service rifle portion, so I never got to see what the guys were using in the sniper matches.
Anyone know how difficult it would be, or if it's even possible, to install a 1200C into a stock inlet for the M85? Realize that it will need to be modified, just unsure as to how difficult. I'd probably need to open up the barrel channel as well since I'd prefer to use the heavier M82 profile.
The M85 action with the exception of the mounting centres is dimensional quite different than the 1200 action. An M85 action is near impossible to find in Canada and I've been looking for the past 4 years...no luck to date. The M85 is much longer in the breech than the M86 or 87's. Also the barrel channel is smaller. Having said that and assuming you have a 1200 action you would be best to trade off the M85 stock for a C3 or C3a1 beech stock. The other option is to hog out enough material to clear the 1200 action and Devcon it into position.....will take a lot of material and stock would have to be painted to hide the surgery....this will cost a few bucks, especially when Devcon steel sells for $70.00 a unit. The result might not be that great on the range. Just my 2 cents worth. Ron
I thought that the bottom of these receivers were essentially the same as any mauser 98, just that the front of an M85 is about .3" longer which shouldn't even matter. It would need to modified for the different bottom metal that the 1200C or M87 uses, was just wondering how much work that might entail. Are you the guy that bought the other M85 stock off of Baz a few years back?
I actuallly have a C3 stock that I was thinking of using originally but then I ended up with this one. I was going to use the C3 stock to build an M82 type clone in 6.5x55 but like all of my projects got distracted and never got an action for it.
I would prefer to source an M86/M87 action. I looked into it a few years ago when the actions were freely available at Numrich but the Canadian dealer I talked to didn't seem interested in doing the importing for me. I've got a 1200C in .300 Win Mag that has an M87 magazine installed on it just sitting around collecting dust, figured I could make it useful. Just something about that McHale stocks makes me really want to build a rifle with it. I'd prefer to use the M87 mags over the M85 system since you can get into the longer cartridges.
I actuallly have a C3 stock that I was thinking of using originally but then I ended up with this one. I was going to use the C3 stock to build an M82 type clone in 6.5x55 but like all of my projects got distracted and never got an action for it.
I would prefer to source an M86/M87 action. I looked into it a few years ago when the actions were freely available at Numrich but the Canadian dealer I talked to didn't seem interested in doing the importing for me. I've got a 1200C in .300 Win Mag that has an M87 magazine installed on it just sitting around collecting dust, figured I could make it useful. Just something about that McHale stocks makes me really want to build a rifle with it. I'd prefer to use the M87 mags over the M85 system since you can get into the longer cartridges.
Still looking for a M85 receiver and have investigated importing from the UK. The only source is Norman Clark and he won't export. He will sell to a RFD however the fee is prohibitive and I've run this by a couple others as well.
The M86 option was out there from GunParts (Numrich) a while back however their receivers (priced around $100.00 at the time) were sourced by one individual and not released to the market. An investment I guess. Occasionally you see one for sale in the US however it has to be imported and it's an expensive process.
Best option is to keep looking in Canada. I've advertised however I've not had any positive response. Collector's Source did have a M84 for sale however it went quickly once it was discussed here on GUNNUTZ.
I do have a number of C3 parts that I would trade for M85 or M87 components.
IMO, the bottom metal of the 1200C, C3A1/M87 and M85 are essentially the same dimensional. The components are all different....ie triggerguards, mag releases, mags, bushing lengths. The C3A1 uses a unique Parker Hale mag (M87 where as the M85 uses a modified M14. I have all of these if you need any measures. The PH 1200C bottom metal can be fit by a skilled person into the M85 stock. "Mauser" bottom metal is totally different..a guard will swim in a C3A1 stock.
The receivers are quite different. Take your 1200C barrel action and drop it into the M85 stock. you will see the clearance issues right away. You basically into reinletting and filling the voids with Devcon. As previously stated it then needs painted to cover the surgery. Just for the record....I did a similar conversion last fall with a 98 Mauser action.....a lot of work...would have been better to source an inletted stock in the first place.
Another thing to consider is the future sale of the rifle. You'll never get your money out of the conversion.....however if you heart is set on it...go for it.
The M86 option was out there from GunParts (Numrich) a while back however their receivers (priced around $100.00 at the time) were sourced by one individual and not released to the market. An investment I guess. Occasionally you see one for sale in the US however it has to be imported and it's an expensive process.
Best option is to keep looking in Canada. I've advertised however I've not had any positive response. Collector's Source did have a M84 for sale however it went quickly once it was discussed here on GUNNUTZ.
I do have a number of C3 parts that I would trade for M85 or M87 components.
IMO, the bottom metal of the 1200C, C3A1/M87 and M85 are essentially the same dimensional. The components are all different....ie triggerguards, mag releases, mags, bushing lengths. The C3A1 uses a unique Parker Hale mag (M87 where as the M85 uses a modified M14. I have all of these if you need any measures. The PH 1200C bottom metal can be fit by a skilled person into the M85 stock. "Mauser" bottom metal is totally different..a guard will swim in a C3A1 stock.
The receivers are quite different. Take your 1200C barrel action and drop it into the M85 stock. you will see the clearance issues right away. You basically into reinletting and filling the voids with Devcon. As previously stated it then needs painted to cover the surgery. Just for the record....I did a similar conversion last fall with a 98 Mauser action.....a lot of work...would have been better to source an inletted stock in the first place.
Another thing to consider is the future sale of the rifle. You'll never get your money out of the conversion.....however if you heart is set on it...go for it.
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Yes, I'm aware of that, it's the same mag used in the M87. Like I said, my 1200C has an M87 magazine installed in it, doesn't have the internal spacer in it like the C3A1 mag because it's for a .300 Win Mag. This led me to believe that the bottom metal for the M87 and the 1200C were the same, unless the previous owner switched them.
When I have a little more free time than I'll take apart the 1200C and sit it in the M85 stock to see what sort of issues I'll have. Don't think it will hurt any sort of resale value, 1200Cs are quite cheap, certainly cheaper than what I paid for mine.
Old Western Scrounger lists a raw M85 casting on gunbroker. Pricey at $250. Do believe that Numrich still has M86 receivers, the one I found on Gunbroker had a numrich e-mail address for questions, too bad they no longer export stuff to Canada if it requires State Dept paperwork.
ETA: I can't bring myself to sell any of the spare parts I have sitting around, let alone selling an actual rifle. Pretty sure I'd have this for a long time if I do it.
A few C3 and C3A1 were registered with CFC
I've hold in my hand C3 serial number 01 and C3A1 serial 01 with scopes
Right before they were sold to Knight Reed in the US in Spring '01
They were registered as C3's!
Real collector item....They were T& E rifles from UK for the CF that was re imported to Canada.The (A1)Unertl scope for T&E was send back to US but came back also!So everything was matching!
This specific canadian owner had also the C1 serial 01 and C1A1 serial 01...He sold them , but they are still in the country.......
Spike
I've hold in my hand C3 serial number 01 and C3A1 serial 01 with scopes
Right before they were sold to Knight Reed in the US in Spring '01
They were registered as C3's!
Real collector item....They were T& E rifles from UK for the CF that was re imported to Canada.The (A1)Unertl scope for T&E was send back to US but came back also!So everything was matching!
This specific canadian owner had also the C1 serial 01 and C1A1 serial 01...He sold them , but they are still in the country.......
Spike
Steve David
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Oshawa, Ontario
A few C3 and C3A1 were registered with CFC
I've hold in my hand C3 serial number 01 and C3A1 serial 01 with scopes
Right before they were sold to Knight Reed in the US in Spring '01
They were registered as C3's!
Real collector item....They were T& E rifles from UK for the CF that was re imported to Canada.The (A1)Unertl scope for T&E was send back to US but came back also!So everything was matching!
This specific canadian owner had also the C1 serial 01 and C1A1 serial 01...He sold them , but they are still in the country.......
Spike
Are you sure 01? Unertl scopes did not come with 2 digit serial numbers, not the ones for the USMC, the FBI or the Canadian forces, all were 4 Digit serial numbers and were marked specifically for them.
