PCC pick of the litter?
- Thread starter Joel
- Start date
That bag is a Rush 12, but not the 2.0 version. I just happen to have my eyes / ears in that bag, so it's only used as a support for the rifle in that picture. Truthfully the rifle is too big for that bag.
- Location
- ON, North of GTA
Love my Ruger PCC riding in a backpacker stock, but I bought a Lockhart Tactical Raven today on a whim after handing it.
AR ergos are pretty much impossible to beat, and this thing is fully ambi.
Poor Ruger is getting dumped like the fat kid at prom.
AR ergos are pretty much impossible to beat, and this thing is fully ambi.
Poor Ruger is getting dumped like the fat kid at prom.
- Location
- ON, North of GTA
Different strokes I guess. I had both FX9 and Ruger and sold the FX9.
My list on guns I owned or have shot assuming Pierre gets in. If he doen't all those mentioned here will be banned so post Trudeau:
1. CZ Skorpian 18.5" Carbine or the shorter version (Preferably both)
1 a Sig MPX
1 b Kidon Kit with a M&*P Pro 5" or similar railed polymer gun. 5" or longer makes making PF easier for playing the games (135 for IDPA)
2. Lockhart Raven with all the goodies
3. Beretta CX4 Storm with metal trigger group. Short, handy and reliable with outstanding accuracy.
4. S&W FPC for it's versatility
5. Ruger PCC original version. All the other versions are way to heavy for what they are. Backpacking a heavy plinker is going to get old quick
6. JR Carbine for playing the games for the young family guy with his priorities straight
7. FX 9 (A kit gun be prepared for a number of issues all of which can be fixed. Mine is in the Hospital named Wolverine and hopefully will come home healthy. Blown cases gets old quick. Looks good, accurate as the any of the best, very utilitarian. Can be ammo picky from a design that should not be picky. Looks better than it performs based solely on my experience with one gun. Lots work fine, mine doesn't yet. I do love mine but for all the wrong reasons - it looks cool and if and when a Ravon arrives this gun will be a safe queen.
Any of these guns with a Primary Arms 6MOA SLX Micro Prism sight. or any other >$200 Red Dot they all seem to work well enough.
Take Care
Bob
PS Any of the B&T PCC's but they are way over priced for what you get when compared with say a Ruger PCC $850, S&W FPC. $999 or a JR Carbine at ?Even the basic Raven comes in at $1,450 about half of some of the B&T offerings.
1. CZ Skorpian 18.5" Carbine or the shorter version (Preferably both)
1 a Sig MPX
1 b Kidon Kit with a M&*P Pro 5" or similar railed polymer gun. 5" or longer makes making PF easier for playing the games (135 for IDPA)
2. Lockhart Raven with all the goodies
3. Beretta CX4 Storm with metal trigger group. Short, handy and reliable with outstanding accuracy.
4. S&W FPC for it's versatility
5. Ruger PCC original version. All the other versions are way to heavy for what they are. Backpacking a heavy plinker is going to get old quick
6. JR Carbine for playing the games for the young family guy with his priorities straight
7. FX 9 (A kit gun be prepared for a number of issues all of which can be fixed. Mine is in the Hospital named Wolverine and hopefully will come home healthy. Blown cases gets old quick. Looks good, accurate as the any of the best, very utilitarian. Can be ammo picky from a design that should not be picky. Looks better than it performs based solely on my experience with one gun. Lots work fine, mine doesn't yet. I do love mine but for all the wrong reasons - it looks cool and if and when a Ravon arrives this gun will be a safe queen.
Any of these guns with a Primary Arms 6MOA SLX Micro Prism sight. or any other >$200 Red Dot they all seem to work well enough.
Take Care
Bob
PS Any of the B&T PCC's but they are way over priced for what you get when compared with say a Ruger PCC $850, S&W FPC. $999 or a JR Carbine at ?Even the basic Raven comes in at $1,450 about half of some of the B&T offerings.
I put about 300 rounds downrange on the Ravin this weekend, and shot it head to head against my Ruger PCC.
The Ruger is equipped with a Trijicon RM01 (fixed brightness) 2 moa dot rifle sight and Mcarbo trigger spring and buffer.
Out at the muzzle, it has a VG6 Epsilon brake and the carbine is riding in a magpul backpacker stock. Other than that mentioned it is all stock.
The Raven is a 'Platnum' edition with full ambi controls and a fixed 3.5lb Triggertech trigger and Faxon Muzzlock ported flash hider.
I equipped it with a Trijicon MRO reflex rifle sight with a 2 moa dot.
The ammo fed to it consisted of around 200 rounds of RUAG Sintox 9mm ball (124gr), 50 rounds of Magtech ball ammo (124gr) and 50 rounds of handloads (4.4gr. Titegroup over 124gr Montana Gold TMJs).
The Raven barfed on all mags used: Gen 3/4 Glock OEM (G17, G19, G22, G37), Magpul G19 & G17. The only exception once there was around 100 rounds downrange was the mag it came with (Korean KCI) and two 19X mags I brought.
The 19X mags had some difficulty dropping free, a product of a tight magwell and a so-so, left-side mag release that isn't at all very positive
The Ruger by comparison fed everything I put through it, using any of the mags I had on hand.
I was thinking before shooting them together that the VG6 Epsilon equipped Ruger would prove to be an unfair advantage.
The Ruger had noticeably more snap - even with the brake. I think this is probably more a product of the Ruger operating system though as opposed to any perceived differences between the faxon and VG6 muzzle devices.
The Ruger tells you when it is at bolt hold open on the last round on an empty mag, the Raven doesn't.
I conducted a sudo-accuracy test shooting both at 50m rested with 10 rounds of the RUAG shooting at a 1moa black patch on an IDPA target.
The MROs brightness was dialled down to 4, giving it a bit more definition, while the RMR with its fixed brightness (measures about a 6 on the MRO for comparative sake), had more of the dot 'bleed' out onto the target.
Despite this, the Ruger printed a nice 1 1/2" diameter round cluster with its 10 rounds and the Raven had a cluster with a 1 1/2" diameter, but stretching vertically by about 3".
So far, jury is out on the Raven. I'll need to square away the left side mag release and do some further testing with other mags. It is good I have 6 G19X mags, but not if they are not wanting to drop free.
At half the cost of the Raven, and considering it running like a champ, the Ruger PCC isn't getting dumped anytime soon.
The Ruger is equipped with a Trijicon RM01 (fixed brightness) 2 moa dot rifle sight and Mcarbo trigger spring and buffer.
Out at the muzzle, it has a VG6 Epsilon brake and the carbine is riding in a magpul backpacker stock. Other than that mentioned it is all stock.
The Raven is a 'Platnum' edition with full ambi controls and a fixed 3.5lb Triggertech trigger and Faxon Muzzlock ported flash hider.
I equipped it with a Trijicon MRO reflex rifle sight with a 2 moa dot.
The ammo fed to it consisted of around 200 rounds of RUAG Sintox 9mm ball (124gr), 50 rounds of Magtech ball ammo (124gr) and 50 rounds of handloads (4.4gr. Titegroup over 124gr Montana Gold TMJs).
The Raven barfed on all mags used: Gen 3/4 Glock OEM (G17, G19, G22, G37), Magpul G19 & G17. The only exception once there was around 100 rounds downrange was the mag it came with (Korean KCI) and two 19X mags I brought.
The 19X mags had some difficulty dropping free, a product of a tight magwell and a so-so, left-side mag release that isn't at all very positive
The Ruger by comparison fed everything I put through it, using any of the mags I had on hand.
I was thinking before shooting them together that the VG6 Epsilon equipped Ruger would prove to be an unfair advantage.
The Ruger had noticeably more snap - even with the brake. I think this is probably more a product of the Ruger operating system though as opposed to any perceived differences between the faxon and VG6 muzzle devices.
The Ruger tells you when it is at bolt hold open on the last round on an empty mag, the Raven doesn't.
I conducted a sudo-accuracy test shooting both at 50m rested with 10 rounds of the RUAG shooting at a 1moa black patch on an IDPA target.
The MROs brightness was dialled down to 4, giving it a bit more definition, while the RMR with its fixed brightness (measures about a 6 on the MRO for comparative sake), had more of the dot 'bleed' out onto the target.
Despite this, the Ruger printed a nice 1 1/2" diameter round cluster with its 10 rounds and the Raven had a cluster with a 1 1/2" diameter, but stretching vertically by about 3".
So far, jury is out on the Raven. I'll need to square away the left side mag release and do some further testing with other mags. It is good I have 6 G19X mags, but not if they are not wanting to drop free.
At half the cost of the Raven, and considering it running like a champ, the Ruger PCC isn't getting dumped anytime soon.
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Good review M. I just put my hands in my pocket until.i hear how you make out with your Raven. I have plans for a Platnum fully decked out. That would make it two times what the price of my hospitalized FX 9 and 3 times the value of my Ruger. So far not quite seeing it.
Take Care
Bob
Take Care
Bob
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MacPapRonin
CGN Regular
- Location
- Toronto, ON
I have a friend who is a shooting instructor who swears by the JRC. I have not personally shot it, but he is very picky/particular about his gear so I take his recommendations as being very solid.
The B&T SPC looks lovely. If I had unlimited cash to spend on a PCC that was legal to shoot in Canada, I'd go for an SPC.
If I had a limited budget, I'd probably go for the Ruger or JRC. It's petty to say but I'm not super hot on the appearance of the JRC.
The B&T SPC looks lovely. If I had unlimited cash to spend on a PCC that was legal to shoot in Canada, I'd go for an SPC.
If I had a limited budget, I'd probably go for the Ruger or JRC. It's petty to say but I'm not super hot on the appearance of the JRC.
LordEvilPepper
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Under a rusty barge in BC
Ive tried a few...
Ruger pcc hands down
Not only was it the most reliable, it was the most accurate. At $1000 its hard to beat
glock Mags are the way to go. Its also a tough gun and the barrel take down system is rock sold
Ive owned a ASR, two ruger pcc, 2 m1 carbines, played (a lot) with a sub 2000 and a jr carbine
Havnt gotten to try a fx9 yet.
Ruger pcc hands down
Not only was it the most reliable, it was the most accurate. At $1000 its hard to beat
glock Mags are the way to go. Its also a tough gun and the barrel take down system is rock sold
Ive owned a ASR, two ruger pcc, 2 m1 carbines, played (a lot) with a sub 2000 and a jr carbine
Havnt gotten to try a fx9 yet.
Possibly relevant, to anyone considering a TNW product. I've had mine a couple of years and love it, though I did extensive modifications to the thing out of the box, then some refinements to fine tune it so it ran various commercial 147gr flawlessly. A tinkerer's gun, but once properly adjusted, very reliable, accurate, and easy to pack.
But I've wanted a backup firing pin for a while and failed to find one in Canada. Closest I got was HiCal saying "it'll be in stock in a month or so" a year ago - it has never shown up there, and also a guy on Gun Post trying to sell one with a spring for CAD$170, which is absurd for a USD$20 pair of parts. So I finally made the call to TNW on August 16 and made my order. Pin, spring, and clip came to $60, Canadian, including shipping. Not great, but whatever, it's a bit of peace of mind considering the firing pin is a bit on the lightweight side, and I've heard of one guy breaking his. Unlikely, considering I only shoot 147gr, but you never know.
Here we are 5 weeks later and still no package, so I called just now. They didn't give me an order number, but the receptionist was able to track down my name and then tell me "It shipped on September 15th. Wow, that took a while!" No kidding. My VISA shows a charge on August 18th. Oh well. She gave me a USPS tracking number and I can see it's sitting in LA, waiting to take the next hop, so I guess I'll get it soon.
Point is, don't expect great service from TNW. I love the gun. Well made from excellent materials, and a design I really like for a bunch of reasons, most of all how easy it is to work on it. Like that slipping bolt handle you mention, thegazelle - a minute with a spiral fluted burr in my Dremel followed by a minute with a drum sanding bit and the groove now has a slight forward J hook to it. Only slight, as I don't want to lose the ability to slap the bold handle down easily, but enough that it'll never slip. The bolt handle itself is one I made, as I wanted something heavier than stock to add just a bit more weight to the BCG, in addition to the tungsten rod I put into the bolt buffer weight. Every little bit counts in keeping the action closed slightly longer, keeping the guts and magazines cleaner.
I have a 10/22, and it shoots fine, though I had to do a lot of polishing and some machining to get it to cycle CCI SV reliably. I appreciate that millions of shooters love the 10/22, and so it's obvious that many would also love the Ruger 9mm takedown carbine, which is largely based on the classic 10/22. I just find the mechanisms a bit... well, sort of delicate and fussy, stuff that'll probably run well enough for a few years, but I'm just not seeing the durability there. I'm probably wrong, but we'll see as time marches on. I've had zero problems with anything breaking in my TNW thus far, but again, we'll see. Besides the firing pin, the thing is built very solidly, not a lot really could fail as it's just all solid chunks of aluminum and steel. Too bad about TNW customer service though. If I weren't handy with machining and such, I'd likely have gone with either the Ruger or the Beretta. With the latter I'd be a sad guy right now, not being permitted to shoot it. Of course they'll probably ban the TNW soon enough... and maybe even the Ruger, given all the 'tactical' stuff that's been added to it of late.
BullOnParade
CGN Regular
- Location
- Eastern Ontario
I don’t have anything to add, curious why no one has suggested a tavor in 9mm. They were everywhere 5-6 years ago. Never got to shoot one, tavor is proven though.
