Picture of the day
- Thread starter jwhc
- Start date
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
Say there, Desert Fox, have you read "Rommel's War In Africa" by Wolf Heckmann yet? Sort of lets the air out of the Rommel myth. One of Adolf's pets until he bit the hand that fed him. The OKH crowd sure didn't like him. You'll enjoy it.
Sounds like a good read! I always enjoy learning about figures of 20th century history.
Just finished reading this book:
I have no illusions about who we believe Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel to be. He could be brilliant and daring, yet he was also vain and naive. He was no "Super General", nor a saint. He was a man. A man who made his own men and enemies respect him. A man who achieved frightening success and stunning defeats! He was a German patriot and nationalist.
Of course he was a pawn in the Nazi war machine, and he cannot be excused of helping to further the borders and control of the Nazi German state. But he also a military man with a code of honor to serve Germany. His PanzerArmee Afrika (Afrika Korps) was never accused of war crimes, and both sides in that conflict treated each other with humane decency. Rommel also ignored the "Kommandobefehl" (orders to kill captured commandos) and ignored the order to kill Allied Jewish soldiers and civilians in all theaters of his command.
He was against Hitlers assassination because he believed it would lead Germany to civil war and turn old Adolf into a Martyr. He wished for Hitler to stand trial for his crimes.
When his name came up during the torture of Caesar von Hofacker, he was given the choice to let his family suffer, and face execution, or to commit suicide and save his family, staff, and his name. Looking back, hindsight may give us the feeling he should have stood trial, and exposed the Nazi regime and Hitler for the evil they had perpetrated. Hindsight is always 20/20.
My CGN pseudonym is just a reference to a famous (or infamous) person in history who I thought, though very flawed, portrayed an Anti Nazi stance, while still being a good German soldier. Though history may prove me wrong, I still believe many of the traits of the personality of Erwin Rommel are worthy of respect.
... now, on to the 2 Waffle SS guys in that picture, I believe your observations to be incorrect, hence my image post of "jumping to conclusions"... Find the context and facts behind that photo, and we can discuss.
PS: Tiriaq, the image was not directed at you. You made observations. RRCo. was the one making the assumptions.
Cheers!
*And now back to the PICS!*
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
Good morning fellow Gunnutz new day new picture
Cheers
Joe
That is one tiny deer!
Looks like it's time for a Venison and Hare stew!
Sounds like a good read! I always enjoy learning about figures of 20th century history.
I have no illusions about who we believe Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel to be. He could be brilliant and daring, yet he was also vain and naive. He was no "Super General", nor a saint. He was a man. A man who made his own men and enemies respect him. A man who achieved frightening success and stunning defeats! He was a German patriot and nationalist.
Of course he was a pawn in the Nazi war machine, and he cannot be excused of helping to further the borders and control of the Nazi German state. But he also a military man with a code of honor to serve Germany. His PanzerArmee Afrika (Afrika Korps) was never accused of war crimes, and both sides in that conflict treated each other with humane decency. Rommel also ignored the "Kommandobefehl" (orders to kill captured commandos) and ignored the order to kill Allied Jewish soldiers and civilians in all theaters of his command.
He was against Hitlers assassination because he believed it would lead Germany to civil war and turn old Adolf into a Martyr. He wished for Hitler to stand trial for his crimes.
When his name came up during the torture of Caesar von Hofacker, he was given the choice to let his family suffer, and face execution, or to commit suicide and save his family, staff, and his name. Looking back, hindsight may give us the feeling he should have stood trial, and exposed the Nazi regime and Hitler for the evil they had perpetrated. Hindsight is always 20/20.
My CGN pseudonym is just a reference to a famous (or infamous) person in history who I thought, though very flawed, portrayed an Anti Nazi stance, while still being a good German soldier. Though history may prove me wrong, I still believe many of the traits of the personality of Erwin Rommel are worthy of respect.
... now, on to the 2 Waffle SS guys in that picture, I believe your observations to be incorrect, hence my image post of "jumping to conclusions"... Find the context and facts behind that photo, and we can discuss.
PS: Tiriaq, the image was not directed at you. You made observations. RRCo. was the one making the assumptions.
Cheers!
*And now back to the PICS!*
There is a reason the afrikan campaign is popularly known as the "The War without hate."
Or is that a book I may have read about that particular front?
Yes. Showa L2D
Read somewhere that a common toilet graffitti in Russia was "s**t in peace, Stalin keeps watch" or words to the effect.
Well, you asked so here it is: a "guess" is not an assumption. I'm not sure why you're so concerned about someone making such a guess where the SS are concerned though? It's a not a formation that deserves the benefit of the doubt. Anyone who cares to study the matter will know what their record is. Of course the SS couldn't be everywhere and the Wehrmacht certainly committed their share of atrocities - see my posts in the Greek debt thread. Murdering 4500+ Italian POWs in cold blood for example, snuffing out who knows how many Greek villagers on the Fuhrer befehl 50:1 ratio of murder.
Now, those same Wehrmacht troops tended to treat British Empire troops quite differently than they did the "untermensch"; which is like appraising a bully on how he treats the next strongest kid in school rather than the weakest, which is of course
.Sooner or later you have to deal with the fact that you're dealing with people who don't think in the way we do, (speaking for my people anyway) and sure as hell didn't behave in the same way.
Most people can't grasp that sort of thing until they encounter it personally though. Some can't get it even then. I've learned to accept that fact.
There is a reason the afrikan campaign is popularly known as the "The War without hate."
Or is that a book I may have read about that particular front?
"Krieg Ohne Haas" I think it was called; the book that is. I'd advise asking some vets if you want the other answer.
Some people took exception to having to see their friends and family die in another unnecessary world war and did indulge in a little "hate" now and then I understand. With our perspective of course, we can see how unreasonable that was.
And there's certainly no reason to be sore now about the countless millions of our best people whose lives were cut short, often before they could have children themselves. The millions of widows and orphans who lived lives of material and emotional deprivation as a result, the countless thousands of scientists, poets, authors, geniuses, leaders and ordinary people who were never born as result?
Yup, ignorance is bliss and what passes for "tolerance" is usually just apathy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twib8M0uS3o 10:50
- Location
- Leduc County, Alberta
RRCo. said:
Yeah. Why be concerned with the truth....
My beef is that we don't know what that photo is all about. Most likely it's just a staged propaganda photo... Or maybe not...
Nazi Germany was a horrible and evil regime. We know that. But no matter what the collective group did, no matter how horrible, does not excuse one to implicate EVERY SINGLE person associated with it in the same crimes!
Germany as a nation reaped what she sowed, and deservedly so.
So did the Soviets who invaded Poland, Finland, and the other Baltic countries... Ask any Pole who lost family at Katyn...
The Italians reaped the whirlwind too because of their Fascist Bully Boy Benito. Ask the Abyssinian people, or the Greeks!
I still feel sympathy for the innocent individuals of ALL those countries!
I do not like lumping entire swaths of people into the same category...
Lest we forget!
It's the Fourth Infantry Division
Yeah. Why be concerned with the truth....
My beef is that we don't know what that photo is all about. Most likely it's just a staged propaganda photo... Or maybe not...
Nazi Germany was a horrible and evil regime. We know that. But no matter what the collective group did, no matter how horrible, does not excuse one to implicate EVERY SINGLE person associated with it in the same crimes!
Germany as a nation reaped what she sowed, and deservedly so.
So did the Soviets who invaded Poland, Finland, and the other Baltic countries... Ask any Pole who lost family at Katyn...
The Italians reaped the whirlwind too because of their Fascist Bully Boy Benito. Ask the Abyssinian people, or the Greeks!
I still feel sympathy for the innocent individuals of ALL those countries!
I do not like lumping entire swaths of people into the same category...
Lest we forget!
Lest we forget!
Doubtful.
I'm guessing it's a captured Hotchkiss (not sure of the model), as I remember reading that the St Etienne machine gun was so bad the French Army sent it to France's colonies in WWI, and that's a WWII German uniform.
x3 Its a St Etienne Mle 1907 machine gun captured in May 1940.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Étienne_Mle_1907
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Étienne_Mle_1907
