The Berdan rifles I have seen have steel trigger guards. Mind you I have only seen a couple of dozen total.
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- Thread starter jwhc
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The Berdan rifles I have seen have steel trigger guards. Mind you I have only seen a couple of dozen total.
Purple told me a short story about doing a tour in the Middle East around that time and the other UN unit were still carrying P08s.
The MP38 - 40 were good smgs. They were super reliable and comfortable to carry and shoot. They are also very easy to maintain. As far as keeping them working, Not much in them to go wrong and any decent fabricator could easily and cheaply make up the spare parts. The Scandinavian countries are well known for not throwing anything usable away. They captured thousands of tons of weapons/ammunition and other supplies when the Axis armies pulled out or surrendered. A lot of their own equipment had been sent to the Russian front or to rear echelon Axis units and what better way to re equip than to utilize the tons of capture material??
Looks like it must have crash-landed in a swamp or something. Props kicked up debris and peppered the fusilage??
the naval forces around the world all seem to occupy their hours and hours of boredom by defining new classes of ships. Although these days I think you can put a 1/2 dozen missiles on a boat small enough to dock at a muskoka marina that would ruin the day for an aircraft carrier!
There were estimated to be 400,000 German troops in Norway, at the time of the surrender in May 1945,..actually these troops saw very little fighting, after the invasion of Norway was over, British commandos made several raids..but they only lasted at the most few hours, or a day,..the British air force was very active, attacking German shipping, the battleship Tirpitz was sunk by 12.000 pound bomb, dropped in a raid by Lancaster bombers, though Germans faced Norwegian resistance fighter also
I would think that most of the small arms , K98 rifles, MP 40 smg, and mg 42 machine guns would be in very good shape,..they certainly wouldn't have taking a beating like small arms and men did in, Normandy, Russia, or the Ardennes
Made me go look up the troop rotation into and out of Norway - had a hard time figuring that the Wehrmacht would permanently station 400,000+ men in a backwater of the war. I just kind of assumed that they would use it as a rest/refit rotation spot.
But by all accounts, that wasn't the case. Once the occupation was complete, the combat soldiers were pulled, and the occupation forces consisted of largely 2nd line garrison troops, and by and large remained there for the duration. After the allied bombing campaigns got going, it just became too risky to move significant numbers of troops across the North Sea.
That's a mighty sizable force, even if it was second line troops, to strand in a backwater.
Interesting footnote:
The Germans had a significant Lebensborn program in Norway, which resulted in a lot of the traditional shaming after the war for Norwegian women who participated (willing or not), and pop queen:
View attachment 52704
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_occupation_of_Norway#Lebensborn_and_war_children
Agreed. You should read some of the stories from the pilots that are starting to come out. I remember one where the pilot was taking photos over Libya and some SAMS where fired at him. He flawed the plane till he got away and then cut the plane back to idle and still overshot his refueling tanker at Gibraltar. Check a map and you will see it took a long time to slow down. The amount of new technology developed for the SR71 is quite something.
Second line troops were grouped ailments or conditions tgat kept them out of first line. IE, there were white bread battalions of men with stomach ailments, who received white bread in their rations.
Nope. These were P08s being carried by a couple of Finnish officers in the late 1970's. I recognize "old toggle top" from the others anytime. But don't ask about markings though;its been 38 yrs.
Another anachronism was BRENs being used by the Nepalese Battalion in South Lebanon in the late 1980s. What's to improve on?
The Turks are among the best known armies for doing things on the cheap and for not throwing anything out. I spent some time in eastern Turkey in the late 1980s and was surprised to see how they were outfitted; original WW2 vintage Deuce and a halfs, 155mm Long Tom guns, and even a Turkish made version of the M1A1 Thompson. They were operating ex-CF 104 Starfighters out of the airbase at Diyarbakir at the time.
If you read the war daries of Field Marshal Brooke, Churchill kept wanting to go back to invade Norway. Brooke however considered Norway a nonstarter as it was in no way relevant to the prosecution of the war. I think he felt that it was good as a holding compound for german soldiers!
thats VERY interesting ... there were German "advisors" (as well as British) assisting the Finns during their "Winter War" maybe the P08's arrived that way... here is the Finnish Lahti L-35 which was used until the '80's by the Finn's -- this was what the Swedes tried (with indifferent success) to copy when they built the Husqvarna M40 pistol. The Lahti holster is a pretty close copy of a P08 holster --- it would probably hold a P08 quite nicely -- OTOH -- you sure have to agree that there is a VERY strong resemblance.Nope. These were P08s being carried by a couple of Finnish officers in the late 1970's. I recognize "old toggle top" from the others anytime. But don't ask about markings though;its been 38 yrs.
thats VERY interesting ... there were German "advisors" (as well as British) assisting the Finns during their "Winter War" maybe the P08's arrived that way... here is the Finnish Lahti L-35 which was used until the '80's by the Finn's -- this was what the Swedes tried (with indifferent success) to copy when they built the Husqvarna M40 pistol. The Lahti holster is a pretty close copy of a P08 holster --- it would probably hold a P08 quite nicely -- OTOH -- you sure have to agree that there is a VERY strong resemblance.
My library is packed up for house renos so I can't quote my references at this time , but the Finns did procure several thousand P08s from DWM in the 1920s. These are a distinct Luger variant and are identified and described in many sources. When I looked these over I thought that they were probably the last ones to see military service.
I toured several military facilities while visiting military friends in Finland and was surprised to see a number of things incl active coast artillery defences, the use of good old John Deere farm tractors for logistics and troop movements in forested areas, and what was probably the last Czarist Russian military garrison still in use. They had pics of the construction period showing the troops living in tents in the snow while the Czarist officers enjoyed the good life in a big brick officers mess complete with a hardwood floored ballroom and big ornate rococo style wood burning stoves. Part of the bldg housed a small museum which included a Winchester M1895 musket which was supplied to the Russians in 7.62 x 54 chambering.
In 1921 the Finns decided they needed a new service pistol that was semi auto. They were well connected with the Germans and decided to adopt the P08. As luck would have it, production of the P08s had been curtailed by the Versailles Treaty and what was being produced need to be OKed by committee. The production of commercial pistols on the other hand was acceptable. The Finns purchased as many 1923 DWM pistols in 7.65 caliber that were available for export over the next couple of years. These were issued to their officers and NCOs and likely others.
During their run ins with the Soviets the Finns found the light 7.65 bullets had issues penetrating great coats covered with ice or frozen snow. They needed a larger bullet. When the pistols went back to stores they were sent to be rebarreled with Tikka 9mm barrels. I recently sold one of those pistols to a young collector in Nelson. I originally picked up this pistol from a batch that I could pick through. When I bought it, I thought it was expensive but the new Tikka barrel was longer than the original barrels, five inches. This IMHO was done so that the P08s would fit into the same holsters as the Lahti pistols.
Anyway I was told that only 500 of the pistols were FTRed and refitted with the 9mm bbls. No documentation on this so at this point it was a story from the importer. I am also told that only 50 of the pistols came into Canada and some of them were sold to a movie company after being dewatted. The rest of them were spread around Europe and the US.
If you have one of these pistols consider yourself lucky. Of all the pistols I picked through, none of them had any matching numbers. They were complete mixmasters but still very serviceable and a testament to their manufacturer for parts interchangeability.
By the way, in 1969 I personally saw Portuguese officers carrying their version of the P08in Angola. Most were well worn but still highly prized by those that had them. Very crude as far as finish went but the fit and function were very good indeed. I wish I had been able to grab one but at the time there were other considerations that were more important. Not only that but 9mm ammo was very difficult to come by.
During their run ins with the Soviets the Finns found the light 7.65 bullets had issues penetrating great coats covered with ice or frozen snow. They needed a larger bullet. When the pistols went back to stores they were sent to be rebarreled with Tikka 9mm barrels. I recently sold one of those pistols to a young collector in Nelson. I originally picked up this pistol from a batch that I could pick through. When I bought it, I thought it was expensive but the new Tikka barrel was longer than the original barrels, five inches. This IMHO was done so that the P08s would fit into the same holsters as the Lahti pistols.
Anyway I was told that only 500 of the pistols were FTRed and refitted with the 9mm bbls. No documentation on this so at this point it was a story from the importer. I am also told that only 50 of the pistols came into Canada and some of them were sold to a movie company after being dewatted. The rest of them were spread around Europe and the US.
If you have one of these pistols consider yourself lucky. Of all the pistols I picked through, none of them had any matching numbers. They were complete mixmasters but still very serviceable and a testament to their manufacturer for parts interchangeability.
By the way, in 1969 I personally saw Portuguese officers carrying their version of the P08in Angola. Most were well worn but still highly prized by those that had them. Very crude as far as finish went but the fit and function were very good indeed. I wish I had been able to grab one but at the time there were other considerations that were more important. Not only that but 9mm ammo was very difficult to come by.
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Here's a Canadian one that became a well known yacht...http://3.bp.########.com/-dIKqVpS6J1Q/UsLRST58UjI/AAAAAAAAIC0/V_0-tDm3oM4/s1600/HMCS+Stormont+2.jpg
More photos here...https://laststandonzombieisland.com/tag/warship-converted-to-yacht/
- Location
- Vancouver Island
A 'Strato-sled"!
"Like"--Love how the nose comes to a needle point--reminds me of a cartoonish bee. Together with the 'greenhouse' canopy, it looks a bit like Flash Gordon's old rocketship. A Strato-sled.
"Like"--Love how the nose comes to a needle point--reminds me of a cartoonish bee. Together with the 'greenhouse' canopy, it looks a bit like Flash Gordon's old rocketship. A Strato-sled.
