PPSh 41 build--Shotgun News
- Thread starter Klunk
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Just like an AR.
As a matter of fact, the PPSH barrel and the AR barrel attach to the lower receiver in a very similar manner - with a pivot pin. The lower receiver in both houses the trigger mechanism, and the magazine well, independent of the upper.
Better get it in writing.
As a matter of fact, the PPSH barrel and the AR barrel attach to the lower receiver in a very similar manner - with a pivot pin. The lower receiver in both houses the trigger mechanism, and the magazine well, independent of the upper.
Better get it in writing.
Hmmm. I'm assuming the easiest course of action would be to make a sten style bolt assembly? I'm very fuzzy on how they work on a closed bolt design, but unless I'm missing something major, it seems to me an sks trigger group and a new bolt would work pretty well...
As for the reciever, both upper and lower, since the gun isn't meant to be a sub MOA shooter, is it not concieveable that they could be made from sheet metal, or square and tube stock?
My only experience came from doing the FAL/SKS project, but seems to me for this kindof design, which always required hand fitting, a once off deal could be done this way, especially as I don't have a lathe or mill.
Edit - wait one fricking minute... bullet diameter of 7.62x39 is 7.92mm (.312) while 7.62x25 is7.8 (.31)... if it were rechambered, an SKS barrel would be the perfect barrel to start with... And you could use pistol mags...
And I have an sks barrel...
As for the reciever, both upper and lower, since the gun isn't meant to be a sub MOA shooter, is it not concieveable that they could be made from sheet metal, or square and tube stock?
My only experience came from doing the FAL/SKS project, but seems to me for this kindof design, which always required hand fitting, a once off deal could be done this way, especially as I don't have a lathe or mill.
Edit - wait one fricking minute... bullet diameter of 7.62x39 is 7.92mm (.312) while 7.62x25 is7.8 (.31)... if it were rechambered, an SKS barrel would be the perfect barrel to start with... And you could use pistol mags...
And I have an sks barrel...
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has to be a 100% newly made upper (IF the rcmp say upper is the reciever)
you cannot use any part of the orig upper except the sights even the barrel shroud is "the reciever" and would be CA if you re-used it
the reciever would also need to be made in such a way that an orig bolt would not fit (smaller dia would do)
the trigger group would need to attach in such a way that fitting and orig trigger group would not be possible
basically that gun pictured above could, by putting orig parts back in be FA in mins NOT at all legal to do
Importing the kit would be near impossible the us wont allow export and its likely covered by CGD here in canada and is classed as prohib due to CA or FA status but NOT named by OIC.......
IF a gun was built, submitted and approved by RCMP as restricted or non restricted importing parts would be MUCH easier as they would NOT be strickly for use in FA gun....... but NOT from the U.S
you cannot use any part of the orig upper except the sights even the barrel shroud is "the reciever" and would be CA if you re-used it
the reciever would also need to be made in such a way that an orig bolt would not fit (smaller dia would do)
the trigger group would need to attach in such a way that fitting and orig trigger group would not be possible
basically that gun pictured above could, by putting orig parts back in be FA in mins NOT at all legal to do
Importing the kit would be near impossible the us wont allow export and its likely covered by CGD here in canada and is classed as prohib due to CA or FA status but NOT named by OIC.......
IF a gun was built, submitted and approved by RCMP as restricted or non restricted importing parts would be MUCH easier as they would NOT be strickly for use in FA gun....... but NOT from the U.S
well yes and no do some searching and most of the us home built aks are actually welded or folded, NO dies needed to stamp them but factory akms are stamped as they are makeing many
the ppsh41 would need to be stamped the dies would be very costly
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If you want to make some sort of semi auto carbine, that's fine.
If you want to make a serious reproduction of a PPSH, that is a different thing.
Have a good look at a real PPSh receiver sometime. It is fairly heavy stock, with serious metal forming operations completed.
A CA 12(3) PPSH is what - $1000 or so? That's a pretty expensive set of parts, some of which are not going to be reusable.
As contact148 pointed out, getting parts kits across the border - any border - legally - is something to consider.
Hmm. The only full build I've come across randomly online was a precut steel plate that the person making it stamped afterwards. With a strong enough press, some basic metal skills and possibly a torch to heat really thick plating or make it easier, I don't see a huge problem. Then again, I'm verging on armchair builder right now, so I'm probably wrong.
I've been trying... it went over worse than trying to find someone with an FAL that would let me see it
Pretty much have to buy one, as it seems most ppl would rather deny owning them than consider letting you see it.In my mind, My goal would be a semi auto carbine that would externally be the same, and would hinge at the same point. Internally can be however works best, as it can't be the original bolt system anyways. The big thing that would be a consideration would be whether or not to protrude the barrel from the heat shield to make it non restricted, or lengthen the whole heat shield with it. The upper is basically composed of the barrel heat shield, a front and rear lug for holding the barrel, a dust cover to cover the action, and a release that holds the upper assembly from opening. The lower is a combined reciever and mag well, that has an internal trigger system and houses the bolt righ?
Why do you assume that it can't have the original bolt system? There are guns on the market that are awfully darn close to the originals. Look at the SSD guns.
If you cannot get your hands on a gun, get hold of a book. Or, you can even find prints for a PPSh on the net. Don't know how absolutely accurate they are, but would be worth a look.
US builders are using the front part of an original receiver - the barrel jacket - welded to a formed rear section. Can't do that here.
I assumed that because the bolt on the PPSH was designed for F/A, along with the trigger mech (though admittedly it was the trigger mech that was responsible for the F/A capability). My train of thought was thinking of a different, already made bolt assy, as I'm not set up to make a complicated bolt, and had very briefly considered if an original PPSH bolt could be modded, which I then realised would make ita prohib, hence my "no orginal bolt system" statement, which is innaccurate. Instead I guess I should say that for me I probably don't have the facilities to do it... though now I'm thinking about it... it's actually a pretty basic bolt...
I usually have problems with pictures because they often can be misleading. Maybe the shadows are wrong, or I simply don't have a sense of perspective on sizing, but I find it much better to get something in hand at least once. After that I can have something set in my mind to work with.
the trigger and bolt control FA fire
on the bolt the fireing pin is fixed which means every time the bolt closes on a rnd it fires
the semi autos have a floating pin so a hammer strike is required to fire the rnd
the ppsh41 trigger group 1 position on the selector stops the bolt each time it passes === semi auto fire
the other does not catch the bolt FA fire very simple design actually
Ive got a ppsh41 sitting right here DEWATT the metal for the reciever is VERY thick if you have an ar15 its close to the thickness of the magwell wall on the lower so forming that would be near impossible at home
Ive seen builds thru (online) where the builder machined the rear half from block of steel and attached it to the shroud but NOT legal in canada
on the bolt the fireing pin is fixed which means every time the bolt closes on a rnd it fires
the semi autos have a floating pin so a hammer strike is required to fire the rnd
the ppsh41 trigger group 1 position on the selector stops the bolt each time it passes === semi auto fire
the other does not catch the bolt FA fire very simple design actually
Ive got a ppsh41 sitting right here DEWATT the metal for the reciever is VERY thick if you have an ar15 its close to the thickness of the magwell wall on the lower so forming that would be near impossible at home
Ive seen builds thru (online) where the builder machined the rear half from block of steel and attached it to the shroud but NOT legal in canada
Hmmm - I assumed the ppsh's had free floating firing pins and an interneal hammer... now I remember I was surprised to see a pic of the ppsh with fixed firing pin and wonder why I forgot about it.
Would making the original trigger design without the FA selector capability be acceptable to the cfo do you think? Personally I don't think so, as it's such a simple design, but you guys seem to know their minds better than I do.
I'm far too chintzy to spend anywhere near the amount of money needed to buy an AR in one go, so unfortuantely I'm not sure how much thickness we're talking. Is it close to 10 gauge for thickness? Fortunately I have access to propane, oxyacetaline, and coal for working metal, so working it wouldn't be an issue, more just knowing what I'm trying to make, and why their version was made the way it was.
Quick question, as I can't find any pics of the inside of the lower reciever;
1) is there a bolt hold open on the ppsh?
2) is there any form of bolt stop or wall on the lower to buffer the bolt assembly, so that it doesn't put all the impact force into the barrel face and lug that's attached to it on chambering a round, and therefore, put the force into the upper reciever?
Hello, new guy here, just a note. I am an active member on a few american forums, and these ppsh41's have come up before. Real pretty piece of machinery, but the semi-auto's have a real reputation for jamming. Not sure what aspect of the design causes this, but this is just "the talk" i have heard about these.
Also, just had a question, or more so a twist of words perhaps for you to think of...
A receiver restored, and modified for semi would be classified "converted auto". However, "scrap metal" restored, and modified, would be classified as a newly manufactured semi auto. These cut up ppsh41's that are claimed "demilled", are legally declared scrap metal. Therefore they are also importable into Canada.
Then would it not make sense that even if you were to use some of the "original" scrap metal, that you would regardless, be producing a newly manufactured receiver/firearm?
And yes, to also clarify, the upper is the receiver.
May i present to you such an example: Marstars mg34 (manufactured by TNW). The utilize the original front end of the "scrap metal" (receiver piece), while they manufacture the rear half. The front portion, still technically, is part of the original receiver. However having been deemed "scrap metal" by the BATF during Demilitarization, it is now void? Based on logic of utilizing parts of the old receiver, this non-restricted firearm should really be a prohibited converted auto.
Also, just had a question, or more so a twist of words perhaps for you to think of...
A receiver restored, and modified for semi would be classified "converted auto". However, "scrap metal" restored, and modified, would be classified as a newly manufactured semi auto. These cut up ppsh41's that are claimed "demilled", are legally declared scrap metal. Therefore they are also importable into Canada.
Then would it not make sense that even if you were to use some of the "original" scrap metal, that you would regardless, be producing a newly manufactured receiver/firearm?
And yes, to also clarify, the upper is the receiver.
May i present to you such an example: Marstars mg34 (manufactured by TNW). The utilize the original front end of the "scrap metal" (receiver piece), while they manufacture the rear half. The front portion, still technically, is part of the original receiver. However having been deemed "scrap metal" by the BATF during Demilitarization, it is now void? Based on logic of utilizing parts of the old receiver, this non-restricted firearm should really be a prohibited converted auto.
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Thanks for the clarification, Michael. This is the RCMP ruling that this scrap metal that previously was a PPSh is no longer a PPSh when it is welded back together? And do the bolt, trigger group, etc, that accompny the "scrap metal" for importation not qualify as gunparts? For the purpose of exportation from the country of origin? It is the US interpretation that scrap metal can be used to produce a new firearm receiver. When did this become the RCMP's?
IBTB.
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I guess that's where our weird and wonderful laws come in. I sincerely suspect that even if the entire reciever cut in half, legally deactivated, then filled with molten steel, it would still be considered a converted auto.
Let's keep this thread alive though please, as I've been getting a lot of good ideas from it, and I suspect so have others. Hopefully it'll bear some legal and solid metal fruit!
Let's keep this thread alive though please, as I've been getting a lot of good ideas from it, and I suspect so have others. Hopefully it'll bear some legal and solid metal fruit!
Michael mentionned functionning problems with the US approved semi autos. That has been a recurring problem. Look at the SGN design. Look at the great thick buffer. There is a reason that is needed. A PPSh bolt is intended to fire the round by Advanced Primer Ignition (API). The foreward movement of the bolt at the time of ignition is a factor in the operating cycle. Have the same bolt standing still at the moment of ignition, and everything has changed. There is no longer foreward movement of the bolt to overcome, only the inertia of the mass of the bolt at rest, and some spring tension. The bolt is going to open a lot faster. Therefore the bigger buffer to get it stopped. Then it is going to rebound off that big rubber buffer, and snap closed at a high rate.
In an earlier post you mentionned reusing an SKS barrel for 7.62x25. Bore size would work, gas port could be plugged. Chrome plating could make chambering a problem. There is a really simple source of suitable barrel stock - .303 Lee Enfield barrels.
In an earlier post you mentionned reusing an SKS barrel for 7.62x25. Bore size would work, gas port could be plugged. Chrome plating could make chambering a problem. There is a really simple source of suitable barrel stock - .303 Lee Enfield barrels.
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1. Yes, its called the trigger sear
otherwise there is a catch on the bolt handle that slots into the receiver to lock the bolt back or forward as a manual safety.2. No. The bolt slams into the face of the barrel, the impact of course is obsorbed in part by the chambered round.
Don't forget this thread. If you need any more photos just ask. Unfortunatly distance will present a problem for hands on experience.
What they are classed in the US has no bearing on how they are classed in other countries. Silencers are classed as hearing protection in NZ, think that makes them importable to Canada?
Also Kits contain more than just a cut receiver and I can assure you from personal experience that a PPSh bolt is classed as a machinegun part, not "scrap metal" and requires an export permit to leave the country (good luck with that).
trust me i have 1st hand experince
wanted to import a semiauto gun that used rewelded FA reciever parts and
the rcmp up front stated that if ANY pieces of the ORIGIONAL
reciever were used they would have NO choice but to rule it a CONVERTED AUTO
the cut up reciever law is a U.S law...this is CANADA
also our dewatts are NOT us legal as the recievers are only welded here where U.S requires 3 tourch cuts....
the PPSH41 HAS a bolt hold open and a bolt hold closed the cocking handle has a little sliding part that when bolt closed can be slide into a cut in the reciever this prevents operating the bolt another slot holds the bolt open when used
if i have time tonight ill take a picture of them
wanted to import a semiauto gun that used rewelded FA reciever parts and
the rcmp up front stated that if ANY pieces of the ORIGIONAL
reciever were used they would have NO choice but to rule it a CONVERTED AUTO
the cut up reciever law is a U.S law...this is CANADA
also our dewatts are NOT us legal as the recievers are only welded here where U.S requires 3 tourch cuts....
the PPSH41 HAS a bolt hold open and a bolt hold closed the cocking handle has a little sliding part that when bolt closed can be slide into a cut in the reciever this prevents operating the bolt another slot holds the bolt open when used
if i have time tonight ill take a picture of them
