PPSh 41 build--Shotgun News

I do not think that there is any point in speculating about what might or might not be accepted. The SSD guns are the most recent commercially manufactured ones that I know for a fact to have been approved. Have a good look at the mechanisms of these firearms. The FRT entries for both the 38 and 3008 mention that substitution of original parts will not result in full auto. Of course, for a 3008, that is irrelevant, because there are no original parts to substitute. Both these firearms have basic, uncomplicated trigger mechanisms.
Consider for a moment the SAS design, BATFE approved semi auto. The designer went to great lengths to make it closed bolt, hammer fired, floating firing pin, impossible to substitute an original bolt. Fine. But there is also the issue of intent. Substitute a newly made bolt, and guess what? All the design features go out the window.
 
ya you could make a special bolt to fit your sas and make it FA

you could also make the parts for FA for most semiautos drill a hole here there ect..... but thats not legal and a VERY bad idea

the rcmp just dont want you to be able to grab a FA bolt or other FA part and drop it right in with NO mods

written in law anywhere??? im not sure but they are the "power" that decides and most of use dont have the time or $$ to fight them in court
 
Thanks for the info on the open bolt gun!

Anyways, even if there is a chance an open bolt design may be approved, i don't see why you'd want to risk it? Isn't it easier just to play it safe, and make it closed bolt and hammer fired?

What are the pro's and cons between open and closed bolt semi's anyways? I know open bolt was useful for the original smg, but the benefits it gave that i'm thinking of don't really apply to a semi auto.
 
Michael J said:
Thanks for the info on the open bolt gun!

Anyways, even if there is a chance an open bolt design may be approved, i don't see why you'd want to risk it? Isn't it easier just to play it safe, and make it closed bolt and hammer fired?

What are the pro's and cons between open and closed bolt semi's anyways? I know open bolt was useful for the original smg, but the benefits it gave that i'm thinking of don't really apply to a semi auto.
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Open bolt guns work well because they are simple by design. Making an open bolt gun into a closed bolt gun makes it complex, and about as far from the original concept as can be. Open bolt guns are cool, closed bolt mock ups of open bolt guns are not.
 
Open bolt advantages? You are wanting to build as authentic a reproduction as possible. Open bolt and closed bolt guns feel quite different when being fired. Simplicity. Certainly easier to build. Reliability; a closed bolt redesign might not be trouble free.
Availability of parts is a major problem in building any recreation. Unless the builder wants to scratch build everything, starting with some original parts makes things a lot easier. There have been thousands and thousands of "kits" sold in the US. There has been no such availability here, Mk. II Sten parts being the exception. And export of gunparts from the US is regulated. The US mandated semi auto parts are not readily available. If you look at the Mk. III Sten kits that have been sold in the US for as little as 3/$100, you will notice that there are sling swivels retrofitted to the casing and the butt. These are ex-Finnish guns. These Finn kits were not imported commercially into Canada. See one here, and ask yourself how it got here. No gunpart can be exported from the US except by a licenced exporter; and barrels and bolts can only be exported under the authority of a specific State Dept. export permit, by the licenced exporter, after the exporter has receiver a copy of the Cdn. import permit.
 
tiriaq said:
Open bolt advantages? You are wanting to build as authentic a reproduction as possible. Open bolt and closed bolt guns feel quite different when being fired. Simplicity. Certainly easier to build. Reliability; a closed bolt redesign might not be trouble free.
Availability of parts is a major problem in building any recreation. Unless the builder wants to scratch build everything, starting with some original parts makes things a lot easier. There have been thousands and thousands of "kits" sold in the US. There has been no such availability here, Mk. II Sten parts being the exception. And export of gunparts from the US is regulated. The US mandated semi auto parts are not readily available. If you look at the Mk. III Sten kits that have been sold in the US for as little as 3/$100, you will notice that there are sling swivels retrofitted to the casing and the butt. These are ex-Finnish guns. These Finn kits were not imported commercially into Canada. See one here, and ask yourself how it got here. No gunpart can be exported from the US except by a licenced exporter; and barrels and bolts can only be exported under the authority of a specific State Dept. export permit, by the licenced exporter, after the exporter has receiver a copy of the Cdn. import permit.
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Okay, those are pretty good reasons for the open bolt i guess.

I know what you mean about parts being scarce, you think there is any way to convince Marstar to dissect a few of their FA ppsh41's? I emailed them awhile back, and they said they will sell "demilled" guns , but only per (minimum) half container load. Maybe if lots of people would want to do the build, a group buy could be worked out?
They appear to be in stock i think?
http://www.marstar.ca/fullauto/S-PPSH-41.htm
 
as for marstar thru I cant speak for them

im guessing the cost would be high for parts kits as the paper work to import them as FA the cut them up then de-register them be TONS of paperwork id bet

about the only "easy" way to get a kit would be to buy a FA or CA and have it parted out and reciever destroyed and deregistered

useing that old ottawa citizen registry search i find 124 registered ppsh41's so not too many available for us.....
 
Juster said:
Demilled is not a great source of spare parts for a number of reasons.
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There are various methods of demill, the one i refer to is the destruction of the receiver. And because you can't use the original receiver in a build anyways, thats one method of getting all the parts out of a FA legally.


Contact148, your probably right... Although Marstar is a major supplier to the US of these "demilled" guns, rather than purchasing half a container load, maybe we could ask them to set aside 5 or so kits on their next "run", as they are demilling a whole bunch anyways?
 
Michael J said:
There are various methods of demill, the one i refer to is the destruction of the receiver. And because you can't use the original receiver in a build anyways, thats one method of getting all the parts out of a FA legally.


Contact148, your probably right... Although Marstar is a major supplier to the US of these "demilled" guns, rather than purchasing half a container load, maybe we could ask them to set aside 5 or so kits on their next "run", as they are demilling a whole bunch anyways?
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I tried to get an eastern company to demil an FAL for me last summer - offered them $150 to dissassemble it and cut the barrel free. They refused to do it. For them it was sold as is, or welded solid. For my project I don't need the FAL reciever, and the rest is not classified as anything, so should be ok, but I've run into a lot of friction over it.
 
H Wally said:
I tried to get an eastern company to demil an FAL for me last summer - offered them $150 to dissassemble it and cut the barrel free. They refused to do it. For them it was sold as is, or welded solid. For my project I don't need the FAL receiver, and the rest is not classified as anything, so should be ok, but I've run into a lot of friction over it.
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Worst comes to worst theres always those american kits, and maybe Questar? But they want $800 for their services... A bit pricey just for parts i think. By the way, did you receive my reply to your pm, because i seem to be having trouble sending private messages... Off topic, but i also apparently received a message dating dec. 31 1969 ??? There is no message to open, it just shows itself as one unread message, kind of annoying!

It's odd the company wouldn't do it, i don't see any immediate problems? Not only are you paying full price for the product, but tipping them another $150 to simply disassemble it and remove the barrel.

The exporter of my parts i bought from the US simply went to Fed-ex, asked them if they'd ship my parts, and fed-ex said it was okay. Maybe if you have family in the US or something, you could buy a demilled kit from an online retailer down there, and ship to your family's location? Then have them ship via fed-ex or ups? FAL parts are real abundant down there :).
 
Michael J said:
...The exporter of my parts i bought from the US simply went to Fed-ex, asked them if they'd ship my parts, and fed-ex said it was okay. Maybe if you have family in the US or something, you could buy a demilled kit from an online retailer down there, and ship to your family's location? Then have them ship via fed-ex or ups? FAL parts are real abundant down there :).
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Just a question or two about legality....
The exporter of your parts was a State Department licenced exporter? If there was a barrel or bolt in the package, there was an export licence? If the value was over US$100, there was an export licence?
Is there any likelihood that the family, whatever, in the US is licenced to export firearm parts?
There could be some really thin ice here.
In your sig. line you mention being a member at 1919A4.com. Your profile there indicates that you joined 10 13 2007, and were a 16 year old student. You do have a PAL/RPAL?
 
Before Marstar will sell you a kit, you have to be licensed in that particular class of firearm - John has pointed that out in a few threads. You are NOT going to be able to get anything like what you want out of the US legally...sorry!
 
tiriaq said:
Just a question or two about legality....
The exporter of your parts was a State Department licenced exporter? If there was a barrel or bolt in the package, there was an export licence? If the value was over US$100, there was an export licence?
Is there any likelihood that the family, whatever, in the US is licenced to export firearm parts?
There could be some really thin ice here.
In your sig. line you mention being a member at 1919A4.com. Your profile there indicates that you joined 10 13 2007, and were a 16 year old student. You do have a PAL/RPAL?
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minors POL, parents got the PAL non-r only, all i need for now anyways. Seller did take a month in between the time he exported via fed-ex, possible he got some paperwork within that timeframe? I was assured everything was fine and dandy legally, and i know everything was declared, as i had a very hefty bill once it got through customs. I don't know how he went about the process, but this is all over and done with, should i really poke at this?
 
If the exporter was not supplied with a Cdn. import permit, no US export licence was obtained. This is a public forum, why report what was probably illegal? These "build" threads are monitored.
 
for those who do not know


you CANNOT export out of the US any MG/subgun/assault rifle kits legally the us will NOT allow without enduser certs the export of MG parts (and even then I bet no unless your LEO/gov)


haveing a us buddy just mail it up is NOT legal he would still require export permits

drieving it across yourself is also NOT legal


Just because you paid duty/taxes at customs does not make it legal you have ITAR regs and CGD permits possible needed

many (but not all) items are ok by canadian laws BUT your breaking us laws and they dont play around

the only kits widely avail here in canada were the stens from our demilled stuff

as for these threads being watched I used to think that but after seeing guys openly claim to fudge this do that say they dont have to let rcmp examine thier builds you really got to wonder......

Keep yourself legal and there are no worries

there are ways to do it right and build a semiauto subgun copy legally
 
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