Semi-Sten: CFC AND RCMP approved and Home at Last
- Thread starter stencollector
- Start date
kolyarh said:
Most of what's needed (the kit, the parts kit Sten Mk II) is made of a special American metal called Unobtanium...not so easy to get.
If someone sells a completed non-restricted version with 19" barrel, I'll have a look at it.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
I am still waiting to hear from the CFC tech for some information on this gun. He is supposed to send me the info today.
There are sten kits in Canada. I have seen the occasional mk3 kit on the EE, and there are still some of the Cdn government cut-ups around. The semi-auto sten kit is another story. I got mine from someone else who imported it in to the country.
There are sten kits in Canada. I have seen the occasional mk3 kit on the EE, and there are still some of the Cdn government cut-ups around. The semi-auto sten kit is another story. I got mine from someone else who imported it in to the country.
Just a thought - instead of trying to find someone else's kits, deal with import, etc. would it be any more difficult to have the various parts requiring machining operations made in engineering shops here in Canada? Many parts, including some major ones, could be made in a home shop lacking any machine tools. Those pieces reqiring machining operations could be farmed out.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
The bulk of the SAS-3 kit is very mickey mouse, and the firing pin is AR-15. It is the basic bolt which is the problem.
The tubeing itself is likely a off-the shelf standard item...it is significantly thicker than the standard 16 ga sten tubing. The template for the cuts aren't that big a deal either.
Since I modified the SAS-3 kit to use on a mk2, I actually didn't use portions of the kit anyway. The SAS-3 kit was meant for a mk3 sten, so things like the barrel cups and rivets didn't get used, along with about 7" of the tube. As I mentioned before, the tube and mk2 trunnion both got some meat shaved off them to make it work, but I just far prefer the looks of the mk2 over a mk3 sten.
I think the fact that this was a commercial kit (made to BATF guidelines) helped in it's acceptance. If someone was to commercially make them here in Canada, that might work out as well. But I think if guys just started hammering out restricted SMGs in their garages, to varying degrees of standardisation, the RCMP may not buy in to it.
The tubeing itself is likely a off-the shelf standard item...it is significantly thicker than the standard 16 ga sten tubing. The template for the cuts aren't that big a deal either.
Since I modified the SAS-3 kit to use on a mk2, I actually didn't use portions of the kit anyway. The SAS-3 kit was meant for a mk3 sten, so things like the barrel cups and rivets didn't get used, along with about 7" of the tube. As I mentioned before, the tube and mk2 trunnion both got some meat shaved off them to make it work, but I just far prefer the looks of the mk2 over a mk3 sten.
I think the fact that this was a commercial kit (made to BATF guidelines) helped in it's acceptance. If someone was to commercially make them here in Canada, that might work out as well. But I think if guys just started hammering out restricted SMGs in their garages, to varying degrees of standardisation, the RCMP may not buy in to it.
FWIW, aside frm the barrel and possibly the buttstock if you use the bent metal one, there is no part of a sten you shouldn't be able to make at home with a welder, lathe and bridgeport mill.
In fact, it's one of the reasons you can't un-invent the submachine gun with regulations. Almost anyone with machining skill can make one in very little time. In fact if you use a smooth-bore barrel and the T-stock, (which is fine in an SMG since most don't need to be accurate), you can make literally everything at home.
In fact, it's one of the reasons you can't un-invent the submachine gun with regulations. Almost anyone with machining skill can make one in very little time. In fact if you use a smooth-bore barrel and the T-stock, (which is fine in an SMG since most don't need to be accurate), you can make literally everything at home.
Oh my.
Oh my.
"when" stencollector gets his thumbs up phonecall, maybe we could decide on having clinics or something, where we could all bring the parts kits/parts needed and each build our own semi-auto (non-restricted for those you want) stens.
Oh my.
"when" stencollector gets his thumbs up phonecall, maybe we could decide on having clinics or something, where we could all bring the parts kits/parts needed and each build our own semi-auto (non-restricted for those you want) stens.
whoops
Woah, Cantom brough to my lazy attention that I missed the crucial point that I can't take apart a dewat to use in this build.
I forgot to read this part
Do you people think there are lots of parts kits out there? Or have majority of them been assembled as dewats?
Woah, Cantom brough to my lazy attention that I missed the crucial point that I can't take apart a dewat to use in this build.
I forgot to read this part
stencollector said:
Do you people think there are lots of parts kits out there? Or have majority of them been assembled as dewats?
Out where? Certainly mot in Canada. In the US? In the US dewats are federally registered. No more dewats can be added to the registry. Some kits may have been assembled into dummy guns, with solid receivers. In this country, you cannot make a replica; replicas are prohibited devices. Can you make a dewat from a parts kit in this country? I don't know. Are you making a dewat or a replica? There is a difference, and there are legal implications either way.
I would suspect that a significant number of Sten and other kits in the US have been assembled into firearms.
Stencollector has demonstrated a legal option.
I would suspect that a significant number of Sten and other kits in the US have been assembled into firearms.
Stencollector has demonstrated a legal option.
If you have the SAS3 kit, a barrel and a magwell, I think the average person could make the rest if they had a dremel and a friendly welder buddy. With a welded-on barrel bushing.
Serious Question: If we had 10 people with CFC-registered tubes, how hard would it be to import (or otherwise obtain) 10 SAS3 kits and 10 sten barrels? If we were super legit about it, and we are obviously not trying to assemble anything full auto?
Serious Question: If we had 10 people with CFC-registered tubes, how hard would it be to import (or otherwise obtain) 10 SAS3 kits and 10 sten barrels? If we were super legit about it, and we are obviously not trying to assemble anything full auto?
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
I will remind folks that before a group buy is suggested, SEEK ADMIN APPROVAL FIRST.
NS
NS
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
Well, as I promised the couple guys who were wanting updates on this project, here goes.
I contacted the tech last week to see what the story was on the issuance of this certificate, and whether it was a mistake. I asked him if the position of the RCMP lab had changed as to what part was registered on a sten. He said he would get back to me. I heard nothing back for about a week, so I contacted my local firearms officer, who looked up the registration certificate. The classification of the firearm had changed from "restricted" to "under review". I emailed the CFC tech again and asked him what was going on. He phoned me the next morning and told me that the cert was a bit of an error, and that their position that the magwell was the registered part had not changed. Since I had recycled (good for the environment you know ) an origional mk2 British housing the gun was likely going to be considered a converted auto/prohib. He said it would require a new magwell. I asked him if I would be making a prohibited item, as it would be a machine gun part, but he said not to worry, as it was for a restricted gun.
That was yesterday morning.
I headed out to the shop to see what I had for scraps of metal the required thickness to take on such a project. The origional magwells are approx .100 thick, so I decided to go with 1/8" plate. The early sten magwells were comprised of two parts, a short piece of round tube, and a rectangular piece welded to the side of that. The tube has a inside diameter of approx 1-1/2 inches, and by what I have always heard, it is not a common size. Also, if I had to order in the tubing from Brandon, I would get stuck ordering in 24 feet of it, and likely have to wait weeks.
So I went to Brandon and bought some 10' long pieces of steel plate 4" wide and 3" wide.
In the first series of photos below you can see the building of the tube part. I turned an old Bren gun carrier roadwheel pin down to the proper diameter and bent the steel plate around it. I welded up the seam and cleaned it up a bit on the lathe. The surface was a bit rough, between the rust that had formed from it's outdoor storeage, to the hammer marks from my crude work.
That was it for yesterday.
Today I made up a mandrel and bent the 1/8 plate for the rectanglular tube portion. In the photos below you can see the progress.
Now came the time to join the two parts together. I tacked it together, then attached it to the SAS-3 receiver to cycle some dummy rounds. It didn't really like the position it was in, so I cut the welds and moved it back about 1/16 an inch. It now cycled perfectly.
With the welds completed, I just had to clean up the work a bit. Not too clean mind you, it is a sten after all. Then, to finish it off I stamped in the identification onto the housing.
Now I have submited the photos to the CFC, and await further word. There is a good side and a bad side to all this. Good side is that it can be done. Bad side is that if you don't have access to a lathe and welder, and about 10 hours of time to kill, it will be very difficult to make your own housing.
Another good point is that once mine is accepted, sten parts won't be "exclusively for a prohibited gun" which should help make importing parts easier.
More info to follow as it becomes available.
I contacted the tech last week to see what the story was on the issuance of this certificate, and whether it was a mistake. I asked him if the position of the RCMP lab had changed as to what part was registered on a sten. He said he would get back to me. I heard nothing back for about a week, so I contacted my local firearms officer, who looked up the registration certificate. The classification of the firearm had changed from "restricted" to "under review". I emailed the CFC tech again and asked him what was going on. He phoned me the next morning and told me that the cert was a bit of an error, and that their position that the magwell was the registered part had not changed. Since I had recycled (good for the environment you know
) an origional mk2 British housing the gun was likely going to be considered a converted auto/prohib. He said it would require a new magwell. I asked him if I would be making a prohibited item, as it would be a machine gun part, but he said not to worry, as it was for a restricted gun.That was yesterday morning.
I headed out to the shop to see what I had for scraps of metal the required thickness to take on such a project. The origional magwells are approx .100 thick, so I decided to go with 1/8" plate. The early sten magwells were comprised of two parts, a short piece of round tube, and a rectangular piece welded to the side of that. The tube has a inside diameter of approx 1-1/2 inches, and by what I have always heard, it is not a common size. Also, if I had to order in the tubing from Brandon, I would get stuck ordering in 24 feet of it, and likely have to wait weeks.
So I went to Brandon and bought some 10' long pieces of steel plate 4" wide and 3" wide.
In the first series of photos below you can see the building of the tube part. I turned an old Bren gun carrier roadwheel pin down to the proper diameter and bent the steel plate around it. I welded up the seam and cleaned it up a bit on the lathe. The surface was a bit rough, between the rust that had formed from it's outdoor storeage, to the hammer marks from my crude work.
That was it for yesterday.
Today I made up a mandrel and bent the 1/8 plate for the rectanglular tube portion. In the photos below you can see the progress.
Now came the time to join the two parts together. I tacked it together, then attached it to the SAS-3 receiver to cycle some dummy rounds. It didn't really like the position it was in, so I cut the welds and moved it back about 1/16 an inch. It now cycled perfectly.
With the welds completed, I just had to clean up the work a bit. Not too clean mind you, it is a sten after all. Then, to finish it off I stamped in the identification onto the housing.
Now I have submited the photos to the CFC, and await further word. There is a good side and a bad side to all this. Good side is that it can be done. Bad side is that if you don't have access to a lathe and welder, and about 10 hours of time to kill, it will be very difficult to make your own housing.
Another good point is that once mine is accepted, sten parts won't be "exclusively for a prohibited gun" which should help make importing parts easier.
More info to follow as it becomes available.
NavyShooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- XMU Local .303
10 hours of shop time? YIKES. I suppose #2 would probably be somewhat quicker though....but still probably at least 5-6 hours or so.
5-6 hours work time for a part = at least $300 in my mind....YIKES. Do-able, but not for the faint of heart, or poor in wallet if you're paying someone else!
NS
5-6 hours work time for a part = at least $300 in my mind....YIKES. Do-able, but not for the faint of heart, or poor in wallet if you're paying someone else!
NS
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
NavyShooter said:
A couple points.
First, that 10 hours included making the two mandrels, coke breaks, and maybe even a couple minutes of gunnutz time (must never sleep, might miss a bargain on the EE
) . I was a government worker after all.Second, is that I went oversize on the metal. 1/8 is .025 thicker than the origional, and takes a lot more effort to bend, then turn down to origional thickness. If you were going to make, say, a SAS-3 based on the mk3 sten, there is no reason to use that heavy a metal. For example, the old SMG C1 used fairly thin sheet metal, which would have been far easier to work with. There is no reason that the magwell could not be made from much thinner sheet.
As to making 80% receivers, I have said it before and I'll say it again, I am not a manufacturer, and can't make these for other guys. I will help out where I can, and perhaps could be talked into loaning my mandrels once this thing finally gets approved.
Who knows, I could be out shooting it before too long.
