Swiss Arms CQB

Jack Brock said:
Cyber isn't the carbine restricted as well as the CQB? I am trying to get a hold of TSE right now so I can pay for it but no one is picking up.
Jak
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Yes, it is, but you have the alternative of the full-length rifle also if that is the problem, the point I was making is that the CQB is restricted to range use only - I was trying to think of something I could use it for. If it's range use only (i.e. size isn't that important) I'd rather have the carbine as it's a better range gun.

Eventually I will convince ATF Import Branch that these guns don't have a FA receiver, so that also makes the Carbine a better choice because then it will be legal to take into the US temporarily on a Form 6NIA. You can't do that with the CQB because it's an SBR.

I'm looking at five pages here of people getting wound up about a part in their gun for what is essentially an expensive toy (the ones in civilian hands in Canada at any rate). If you're that worried, just get a longer model!
 
cybershooters said:
You can't do that with the CQB because it's an SBR.
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To register an SBR is a one time $200 tax stamp...

cybershooters said:
I'm looking at five pages here of people getting wound up about a part in their gun for what is essentially an expensive toy (the ones in civilian hands in Canada at any rate). If you're that worried, just get a longer model!
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Oh s**t dude, sorry, I didn't know you were offering to trade my CQB for a 16" bbl SA....thanks, when can I expect my new gun?

I think the point people are trying to make is since sig is replacing everyone else's guide rods as a warranty issue then why are those of us who paid 4x the regular cost getting told 'not to worry, it doesn't affect us'. Did you notice the thread on the Finnish semi auto's having the same problem?

Re: an expensive toy....by that reasoning why would I care if it works at all?:rolleyes:

redleg said:
The metal guide rods are no longer in production. So I don't see your point. The CQBs are made using available SG552 parts. This is done to keep prices down.
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Maybe...but somehow I doubt that they used all the stock of metal ones up before switching to poly...and in the interest of saving money you'd think they would have saved the metal ones for use in our guns exclusively.....oh wait, it's happening to semi auto's as well so that idea doesn't fly. Fact of the matter is that it's (very) poor customer service...nothing more.

jl
 
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Alright boys when I first started this topic I did'nt know squat and I have listened to many good points and bad, them that like it and them that don't. Thank you all, mind has poked and turned all the valid info over and I have made up my mind. Thank you all, and it was entertaining to say the least.
Jak
 
juliet lima said:
I think the point people are trying to make is since sig is replacing everyone else's guide rods as a warranty issue then why are those of us who paid 4x the regular cost getting told 'not to worry, it doesn't affect us'. Did you notice the thread on the Finnish semi auto's having the same problem?

Re: an expensive toy....by that reasoning why would I care if it works at all?:rolleyes:



Maybe...but somehow I doubt that they used all the stock of metal ones up before switching to poly...and in the interest of saving money you'd think they would have saved the metal ones for use in our guns exclusively.....oh wait, it's happening to semi auto's as well so that idea doesn't fly. Fact of the matter is that it's (very) poor customer service...nothing more.

jl
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I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but maybe you can clarify some things? Which company is replacing all the guide rods? SIG no longer produces any guns, and Swiss Arms (the manufacturer) isn't. So I'm not sure what the statement above means.
Who paid 4x the regular cost? Our price has remained pretty consistant and parallels the price of the guns in Switzerland. The Classic Green CQBs are made specifically for the Canadian market and in relatively small numbers. You won't get better prices anywhere for special production guns in limited numbers.
And of course the Finnish guns are SG552s and not Classic Green CQBs so it could be that different models have different issues.
Once again, if you have a real problem with your gun, Swiss Arms and The Shooting Edge will deal with it. Suggesting that a manufacturer address imagined problems is a little much.
 
redleg said:
I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but maybe you can clarify some things? Which company is replacing all the guide rods? SIG no longer produces any guns, and Swiss Arms (the manufacturer) isn't. So I'm not sure what the statement above means.
Who paid 4x the regular cost? Our price has remained pretty consistant and parallels the price of the guns in Switzerland. The Classic Green CQBs are made specifically for the Canadian market and in relatively small numbers. You won't get better prices anywhere for special production guns in limited numbers.
And of course the Finnish guns are SG552s and not Classic Green CQBs so it could be that different models have different issues.
Once again, if you have a real problem with your gun, Swiss Arms and The Shooting Edge will deal with it. Suggesting that a manufacturer address imagined problems is a little much.
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Did I say Sig? I miss-spoke. Since they are manufactured by swiss arms one would assume that factory replacements come from them and yes, they have been replacing them....EVERY agency in the states has had their guide rods replaced...without asking and in some cases with the affected PD not even aware why they have received the new rods.

How much does a 552 cost?...gonna tell me its $3000.00. Try not to split ####ing hairs...we all know the Canadian guns are amalgamations of two different rifles (thanks you TSE for going the distance on that one.) and I never suggested that we could have done it cheaper...I said its 4x the cost of a 552 and even if it wasn't, for a 3 grand rifle I expect more.

So the Finnish guns are 552's, again, how does the lower receiver being different affect the nearly identical upper...it doesn't. If in doubt, please refer to the manual that ships with the cqb.

Calling the guide rod problem 'imagined' is insulting....only someone with an agenda would claim otherwise. They are poly now for a real reason, not an imagined one.

At no time did I suggest that TSE wouldn't take care of us if something happened....what I said was that Swiss Arms customer service sucks.

You seem defensive...something we don't know about?

jl
 
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juliet lima said:
Did I say Sig? I miss-spoke. Since they are manufactured by swiss arms one would assume that factory replacements come from them and yes, they have been replacing them....EVERY agency in the states has had their guide rods replaced...without asking and in some cases with the affected PD not even aware why they have received the new rods.

How much does a 552 cost?...gonna tell me its $3000.00. Try not to split f**king hairs...we all know the Canadian guns are amalgamations of two different rifles (thanks you TSE for going the distance on that one.) and I never suggested that we could have done it cheaper...I said its 4x the cost of a 552 and even if it wasn't, for a 3 grand rifle I expect more.

So the Finnish guns are 552's, again, how does the lower receiver being different affect the nearly identical upper...it doesn't. If in doubt, please refer to the manual that ships with the cqb.

Calling the guide rod problem 'imagined' is insulting....only someone with an agenda would claim otherwise. They are poly now for a real reason, not an imagined one.

At no time did I suggest that TSE wouldn't take care of us if something happened....what I said was that Swiss Arms customer service sucks.

You seem defensive...something we don't know about?

jl
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Well once again I don't know what you are referring to. Swiss Arms does not deal directly with US customers, SIGARMs does. SIGARMs can pretty much set any policy they want, and any price they want, as they get special deals because they are owned by the same guy that owns Swiss Arms. Whether or not they are doing what you say they are is another issue. I don't know, but I do know that most LE contracts include costs for maintenance, training and life cycle replacements. If you want to buy a gun with a similar package, let us know and we can put something together for you.

I'm not trying to be insulting, but let's look at the facts. The UPPER receivers are different, the models are different. The guns have been in use for years without issues. I personally know of two individuals that have in excess of 5,000rds through their guns. And guess what? No problems. So, yes, you have a different model gun that shares some parts. It has been problem free in operation, yet you are trying very hard to insinuate that it MUST have the same problems another model has.

Once again, if you do have a problem we would be glad to resolve it, but in reality all that this thread has done is convince some people that a problem exists when it does not. Where I come from we refer to that as an imagined problem.
 
juliet lima said:
How much does a 552 cost?...gonna tell me its $3000.00. Try not to split f**king hairs...we all know the Canadian guns are amalgamations of two different rifles (thanks you TSE for going the distance on that one.) and I never suggested that we could have done it cheaper...I said its 4x the cost of a 552 and even if it wasn't, for a 3 grand rifle I expect more.

jl
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Well, a regular factory semi 552 ("SG552 SP") costs about 2200-2300.00 EUR (that's 3300-3400 CAD) here in Finland. I guess it's little cheaper in Switzerland, but I'd say not much less than what you're paying..

edit: civilian prices that is..
 
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redleg said:
Once again, if you do have a problem we would be glad to resolve it, but in reality all that this thread has done is convince some people that a problem exists when it does not. Where I come from we refer to that as an imagined problem.
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I can agree with that, TSE is the exclusive distributor of Swiss Arms rifles and they would know of any problems since firearms returned for warranty work have to go through them.
 
Hey Jack Brock, so which way did your mind get made up? You getting one?? :D

Looks like the discussion on replacing parts doesn't affect any of the rifles anyone would be buying now anyway...
 
bimex said:
edit: civilian prices that is..
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N/A to my argument as I was comparing to the agencies that have had the poly rods as a warranty item.

Just because I think (and it is only my opinion after all) that swiss arms should replace those rods for free shouldn't deter anyone from buying ANY of their rifles. We are lucky that Team Edge went through the trouble to make it possible for us to own these. The only reason I own only one is I'm currently saving for the 2nd (and then 3rd).
 
I have to agree that one shouldn't have paid that amount and now buy a replacement part if needed and others who have the same arm are supplied the item. It is a principal thing and I don't like the reply that I heard. Sorry Edge.
jak
 
No one in SigArms or Swiss Arms went out of their way to replace ours.
We have 220 552's - of which most are tits up due to parts breakage.
TSE was the only company that was willing to talk to us. SigArms (who exported the guns to us on our US DOS End User) basically told us to F Off -- and Swiss Arms claimed they could not do anything since the guns where now in Iraq - and the End User was with SigArms :rolleyes:

I know we paid near $1700 USD per gun - as a gov't entity. I'd hazard a guess that the price with then Cdn/USD/Euro currency rates -- works out to be MORE than TSE's dealer price.

I think for the civilian user 1) buy the $20 rod if you want 2) if you don't, then don't
 
KevinB said:
I think for the civilian user 1) buy the $20 rod if you want 2) if you don't, then don't
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You know its not whining about how much it cost, its whining about a company like Swiss Arms willing to take the chance that a $20 dollar part might or might not cause some breakage.

I`m sure with the great customer service you guys recieved that Swiss Arms would bend over backwards for me if it did jam up and **ck up the reciever or bolt, I`m sure the response would be more like go **ck yourself, you should have gotten the upgrade.....

Did your Armorer ever figure out exactly why these guide rods are jaming up?
Are they too long? Springs too weak? And what does the plastic rod do better? Is it that they allow for more flex or are they just hoping that the plastic guide rods will break before any metal damage happens?
 
The rod is press fit into the back plate rear section -- as the bolt recoils it moves side to side -- it eventually seperates and the rod is loose inside the reciver - and so is the "back plate" - thus the recoil guide is no longer a guide but three loose parts.

I would buy the upgrade if I had a personal CQB -- but I dont think the onus is on TSE to supply them.
 
I'll post a photo of the two different recoil spring guide rods in the morning, the polymer one is basically a single, injection molded piece while the steel rod and rear retaining plate were two separate pieces. The upgrade is $25, and for phack sake, stop complaining people you're making it seem like the carbine is somehow flawed, keep in mind that it was introduced in 1998. How many years did it take for the AR to evolve into a reliable platform?
 
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