Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
I haven't see too many threads on these rifles with regards to accuracy/ability.
Especially with regards to trialing different brands of the more common types of .223 Rem.
I finally bit the bullet and picked up a T97 second hand from a close friend. The rifle is stock condition except for the front sight post which my buddy did an excellent job of filing down into a much thinner post.
I'm told it's a 1:7 twist rate barrel, which the results seemed to lean towards as it shot the 55gr and 62gr with more or less equal results.
I zeroed the rifle at 50 meters with the 62gr US Green Tip for a 6 o'clock hold to hit center of the target about 3" high. Before trying the different brands.
Ammo brands used were:
5.56mm Norinco 55gr FMJ
.223 Rem MFS 55gr FMJ
5.56mm 62gr US Green Tip Surplus FMJ
.223 Rem 62gr Commercial Federal Soft Point Hunting ammunition.
The trials I did were at free Canam. Targets that came with my crate of 5.56 Norinco ammo
Each target was shot at just over 50 meters from the prone with iron sights set at the "1" aperture using 10 rounds of each of the 4 brands of ammunition, the barrel was allowed to cool for at least 5 minutes between 10 round groups.
Here is the Norinco 5.56mm 55gr FMJ:
Then Federal .223 Rem 62gr Soft Point Hunting Ammo:
Good Ol' El Cheapo MFS .223 Rem 55gr FMJ:
Then the 5.56mm 62gr Green Tips FMJ, U.S. Surplus:
I was pretty surprised. The Commercial Federal 62gr shot the worst of the bunch! That is $18 after tax for 20 rounds, name brand ammunition.
The Norinco didn't do too bad in comparison but the obvious winner is the standard U.S. 62gr FMJ followed by the MFS 55gr FMJ.
I was pretty impressed with the relative accuracy for a bullpup, semi auto, short stroke gas piston operated, combat rifle design. Not too bad at all.
I pushed out to 130 meters with my target. I didn't have a very good sight picture, just a black square I made with target patches.
It was just a dot at 130 meters, very hard to get consistent sight picture.
This first group is with the last 10 rounds of the 62gr FMJ U.S. Green Tip Surplus at 130 meters from the prone with the iron sights (zeroed at 50 meters on aperture "1"):
Then I patched the target and shot another 10 rounds groups exactly the same target and distance with 55gr MFS FMJ:
Not bad considering the distance, the average at best ammunition and the iron sights of the rifle.
I think it is capable of better at distance of 130 meters +, the next time I take it out I will try again with 55gr MFS and 62gr MFS with a nice big upside down triangle to get some consistency for the iron sights.
That being said I really don't find the sights on it all that bad at all. I find to get the best picture with them, you have to get your face right up close to the handle, nose almost touching the rear of the carry handle.
It seems to like the FMJ more than anything, I only experienced a couple stoppages, they were failures to feed with the soft point hunting ammunition. Caused by the short flat projectile tip hitting the bottom of the feed ramp instead of hitting the angle and feeding it up and into the chamber, basically it never even left the magazine with the bolt pressing it into the bottom of the feed ramp and the action frozen in that position.
I put at least 300-400 rounds through it that day with only the 2 stoppages attributed to the soft point ammunition. That was with one single initial oiling and then shot it until I was done. It's a very reliable rifle. Simple, rugged, reliable, easy to handle due to the bullpup design, I shot it quite a bit from the standing and the sitting position as well and it was extremely easy to hold and keep solid on target. I could do it all day with little effort.
I was a bit dissapointed at the 130 meter groups but then again, I am attributing it to the bad target being used. Will try again with large upside down triangles. I'm sure the rifle will do better than that. With the groups being what they were at 50 meters, I'm very anxious to get out again and use better targets so I can actually get a consistent sight picture past 100 meters.
Long story short, I love this rifle. No real complaints, the mag release could be a bit larger, I can live with the mag release and the safety being where they are, I'm not a tacticool, zombie slaying ninja or whatever, it works fine. The mag release being bigger would only be better so as to not chew the s**t out of your finger tip after so many reloads. The trigger is long and squishy typical of the bullpup design, though it's not gritty at all, I didn't find it that bad at all, it broke consistently though it's hard to tell when it's going to break. That being said it also eliminates any flinch factor so I found it very easy to shoot.
Anyone else used the irons past 100 meters and gotten different results with commercial/non handloaded ammunition?
Especially with regards to trialing different brands of the more common types of .223 Rem.
I finally bit the bullet and picked up a T97 second hand from a close friend. The rifle is stock condition except for the front sight post which my buddy did an excellent job of filing down into a much thinner post.
I'm told it's a 1:7 twist rate barrel, which the results seemed to lean towards as it shot the 55gr and 62gr with more or less equal results.
I zeroed the rifle at 50 meters with the 62gr US Green Tip for a 6 o'clock hold to hit center of the target about 3" high. Before trying the different brands.
Ammo brands used were:
5.56mm Norinco 55gr FMJ
.223 Rem MFS 55gr FMJ
5.56mm 62gr US Green Tip Surplus FMJ
.223 Rem 62gr Commercial Federal Soft Point Hunting ammunition.
The trials I did were at free Canam. Targets that came with my crate of 5.56 Norinco ammo
Each target was shot at just over 50 meters from the prone with iron sights set at the "1" aperture using 10 rounds of each of the 4 brands of ammunition, the barrel was allowed to cool for at least 5 minutes between 10 round groups.
Here is the Norinco 5.56mm 55gr FMJ:
Then Federal .223 Rem 62gr Soft Point Hunting Ammo:
Good Ol' El Cheapo MFS .223 Rem 55gr FMJ:
Then the 5.56mm 62gr Green Tips FMJ, U.S. Surplus:
I was pretty surprised. The Commercial Federal 62gr shot the worst of the bunch! That is $18 after tax for 20 rounds, name brand ammunition.
The Norinco didn't do too bad in comparison but the obvious winner is the standard U.S. 62gr FMJ followed by the MFS 55gr FMJ.
I was pretty impressed with the relative accuracy for a bullpup, semi auto, short stroke gas piston operated, combat rifle design. Not too bad at all.
I pushed out to 130 meters with my target. I didn't have a very good sight picture, just a black square I made with target patches.
It was just a dot at 130 meters, very hard to get consistent sight picture.
This first group is with the last 10 rounds of the 62gr FMJ U.S. Green Tip Surplus at 130 meters from the prone with the iron sights (zeroed at 50 meters on aperture "1"):
Then I patched the target and shot another 10 rounds groups exactly the same target and distance with 55gr MFS FMJ:
Not bad considering the distance, the average at best ammunition and the iron sights of the rifle.
I think it is capable of better at distance of 130 meters +, the next time I take it out I will try again with 55gr MFS and 62gr MFS with a nice big upside down triangle to get some consistency for the iron sights.
That being said I really don't find the sights on it all that bad at all. I find to get the best picture with them, you have to get your face right up close to the handle, nose almost touching the rear of the carry handle.
It seems to like the FMJ more than anything, I only experienced a couple stoppages, they were failures to feed with the soft point hunting ammunition. Caused by the short flat projectile tip hitting the bottom of the feed ramp instead of hitting the angle and feeding it up and into the chamber, basically it never even left the magazine with the bolt pressing it into the bottom of the feed ramp and the action frozen in that position.
I put at least 300-400 rounds through it that day with only the 2 stoppages attributed to the soft point ammunition. That was with one single initial oiling and then shot it until I was done. It's a very reliable rifle. Simple, rugged, reliable, easy to handle due to the bullpup design, I shot it quite a bit from the standing and the sitting position as well and it was extremely easy to hold and keep solid on target. I could do it all day with little effort.
I was a bit dissapointed at the 130 meter groups but then again, I am attributing it to the bad target being used. Will try again with large upside down triangles. I'm sure the rifle will do better than that. With the groups being what they were at 50 meters, I'm very anxious to get out again and use better targets so I can actually get a consistent sight picture past 100 meters.
Long story short, I love this rifle. No real complaints, the mag release could be a bit larger, I can live with the mag release and the safety being where they are, I'm not a tacticool, zombie slaying ninja or whatever, it works fine. The mag release being bigger would only be better so as to not chew the s**t out of your finger tip after so many reloads. The trigger is long and squishy typical of the bullpup design, though it's not gritty at all, I didn't find it that bad at all, it broke consistently though it's hard to tell when it's going to break. That being said it also eliminates any flinch factor so I found it very easy to shoot.
Anyone else used the irons past 100 meters and gotten different results with commercial/non handloaded ammunition?
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