Tavor VS Type 97??

I don't have pix of the gun or components.
The gun is not mine, anyway, it never was.
Neither was the mount.
I only told 22S_I how to build it.
He started from a 20MOA (or sumpin like that) steel rail
for Rem700 made by Dlask.
The slope feature was not retained,
it was the only steel rail available at the moment,
since the design stresses the rail very much.
It is not better than other mounts. Only lower. That's it.
It covers the open sights (those sights I find useless anyway,
since the rear one is too close to the eye
for a proper focus, at least for my eyes).
I'm sure other designs will be more suitable.
 
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You banned me from taking pictures of the gun so i hoped that you would post some.
I don't have pix, you know that.
But here's a pic with another bullpup.
The one in yellow shirt
is member Deckard waiting for the right oportunity
to whack that guy and take his bullpup.


FAMAS_in_action_59.jpg
 
And I was expecting to see a lot more explanations here. What you wrote are just the headlines. I knew some things you did to my gun, but the details would be more interesting b/c you never talked at large about it.

You are a PITA. You always want something.

Here are some things (I can't do more detailed than that).


Re-crowning job. Just a touch to make sure I will not have
crown problems affecting accuracy.
I will not go into details concerning the specifics
of crowning a chrome-lined barrel or preferred angles.
The crown used on this was made
by a very gentle touch with the cutter and
a minor lapping after that.
Also, a thread was cut at the muzzle and an AR flash hider installed.




Trigger job. The regular semi-automatic trigger on 97
is very hard to modify or improve (as in “trigger job”).
A friend from US (Jason F) did 5 attempts in 5 different ways
(unfortunately on 3 different rifles)
to have a more bearable trigger for target purposes.
I have shot all 5, but I am familiar with only a couple of them.
The one used here is the trigger job
obtained in Jason’s attempt #2.
The trigger mechanism itself has all original parts,
some modified, plus few extra parts
(one pin, 2 springs, 2 shims, few set screws),
Also, there are some additional parts made and installed
in order to have the push-rod adjustable.
It has a much reduced and smooth take-up (adjustable),
the over travel is completely eliminated by adjustment (it is adjustable),
it breaks at 2.7 lbs (not adjustable by user), and it feels pretty crisp.
I wish it had a modded trigger shape like #3 and #4.
It still holds and feels good after 12k shots (or about)
that it has on 2 rifles.
None of the Jason’s trigger jobs retain the safety feature
(they fire on “safe”), as I told him from the beginning
not to bother with the safety.

He is still working on refining #5 trigger.

In testing and after that, we did not experience
bump fire, slam fire, FA fire or any kind of weird fire
that I read about in these threads.
Speaking of which, I cannot see how the fcuk
is the factory 97 bump-firing,
knowing that it has that HUGE take-up (at least on the ones I fired),
unless of course, somebody tried to do stupid things
without knowing what he is doing.
Also, without the whole story, I call the full-auto rumor plain BS.







Ammo.All the ammo was developed by a friend.
It started by him giving me samples of ammo
left from testing a prototype AR. Some did good, some didn’t.
Each sample was about 200-800 rnds each.
And it ended by fine-adjusting the load at the range
He was loading 5 to 10 rnds in his van in the range parking lot,
chrono the shots and registering the results of my shooting.
It took a lot of work. Days in a row.
The best results are based on a load with low velocity and 62gr. bullet.
The ammo used was the most significant single factor in
achieving accurate shooting results
.

He did not tell me the receipe and i did not ask
since I don't have any intention to reload 223.
However I'd love to find an affordable ready-ammo with similar results.



We also tried some other things on the rifle to see
if there is any influence on the accuracy.
Here are the results:
-Gas block adjustment: not significant.
-Mass at the muzzle (different muzzle devices, the heaviest was
a noveske flash hider): not significant in accuracy results.
-Recoil spring tension: we did not mess enough with it to see that.
-Cleaning : probably significant,
but we always cleaned and lubed religiously,
as the gun was borrowed.
Cleaning materials must be aluminum compatible
(no Hoppe’s No.9 or such).













Mags: 3 mags of 5 rnds, steel body,
with matched and proven follower.

In addition, as back-up, 1 10-shot pistol mag
and 1 10-shot AR mag pinned to 5, never used nor proven.
 
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Hold on. You said 21K rounds already went through it?
Hold on for what? :)
Yes, if "it" means "rifle" (barrel, receiver, bolt, bolt-carrier, etc).
About 21,000 rnds. Given or taken some.
That was shot by 3 owners and us (in our testing and fcuking around).
22Short improved was the 3rd owner and he sold it recently.
Hopefully the new owner keeps track of his shooting.
As I said, the trigger I described earlier
has about 12,000 rnds on 2 rifles and
upon inspection it doesn't show much wear.
Its only major problem is adjustment. It takes forever.
On 22S_I's (ex)rifle, this particular trigger has about 8,700 rnds.
 
Hold on for what? :)
Yes, if "it" means "rifle" (barrel, receiver, bolt, bolt-carrier, etc).
About 21,000 rnds. Given or taken some.
That was shot by 3 owners and us (in our testing and fcuking around).
22Short improved was the 3rd owner and he sold it recently.
Hopefully the new owner keeps track of his shooting.
As I said, the trigger I described earlier
has about 12,000 rnds on 2 rifles and
upon inspection it doesn't show much wear.
Its only major problem is adjustment. It takes forever.
On 22S_I's (ex)rifle, this particular trigger has about 8,700 rnds.

Sounds like the rumors that the 97 is a ten thousand round "throw away" gun are just that, BS rumors....thanks Lector
 
Norinco manual says 6000 rounds...

I guess it's regarding the lost of accuracy (moa) cause the way it is built, it can take much more
 
Honestly, the way it is built: I would order a spare bolt head, maybe a driving spring and depending of the price a new barrel. Otherwise, I will just order a new one.

It is a well built rifle:D

And at the bottom, I am with tootall and Deckard...at the price of the ammo these days, I would rater order a brand new one and stock it for SHTF
 
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Norinco manual says 6000 rounds...

I guess it's regarding the lost of accuracy (moa) cause the way it is built, it can take much more

So I got the manual out to check and there it is right on page 1...6000 rounds...sorry Greentips.....Fack I've read the thing a couple of times and didn't see it....I must be losing it....too much time spent bouncing from type 97 thread to type 97 thread...we need our own forum:D

Edit: The manual also says the rifle comes equiped with five magazines...F@cking LEVER ARMS!!!!! They gave me TWO!!!!
 
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+Somewhere a "Communist" makes $ that should have gone to the company in a free and democratic country that spent the time and money to design the parts in the first place.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Sure. Like the $ paid by the US gov to Armalite
for the efforts and investment
in the research, design and development
of the AR family of weapons. Right?

Or like the thousands of designs stolen by the US gov
from the “liberated” territories after the ww2. Right?

Or like the un-known number of designs blindly
copied by the “free” world
for the innocent purpose of maintaining its “edge”
and “standards of living”. Right?

FYI, in the free and democratic
part of the world called “Canada”,
the government has immunity guaranteed by law
against prosecution for patent infringement.
Meaning that they can copy anything they want
without giving a shyte about paying.






methinks we should organize some kind of friendly target competition (demo) with both guns at the same time in the same place


They seem to prepare for war in this contest, i mean they are very serious about it, but so is lector.
omgcv8.gif









“friendly target competition” is not exactly
the same thing with “war”.
So which one is it?
Choose one from below (your words, not mine):
-friendly competition
-demo
-contest
-war


Just to be clear, I don’t do “demo”.
If you want demo’s, go to “Best Buy” or sumpin.

What does it mean “friendly”???
Am I supposed to bring coffee and donuts
or wear a t-shirt with a happy face on it or sumpin?

I don’t understand “war”. Explain.
I don’t prepare for war,
despite of what you posted about me.




Also, if you imagine me in a contest or competition or whatever
with a 97 against a whole row of Tavors,
I can tell you right now that it’s not going to happen.
But I suggested to the Tavor guys who contacted me about this
that they should choose one team and get one gun ready
for whatever contest or competition purpose they have in mind,
of course, subject to the rules we still have to agree upon.
(we might need more time to reach an agreement about those rules).
 
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