Using cheap trap loads for defence?

from the link posted:

the load was birdshot.

"I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance."

i find it hard to believe that after gettin shot at 6ft the guy could walk afterwards. ive seen a deer that was shot from about11-12 yards with #7 1/2 shot and its one lung was mush with the entrance being roughly 4" wide. at 6ft the "pattern" on paper would likely be an inch or so.

maybe he got shot with a .410 rather than 12? lol
 
Don't forget that humans wear clothing that can greatly affect the depth of penetration of projectiles, particularily light weight projectiles.

Heavy overcoats have been known to provide significant projection against low power rounds ie .32 ACP and weaker
 
Wow Go away for less then 24 hrs and three pages of answers. Thank folks for your input. I hear what you are saying Sillymike but this question has been in my head off and on for years and I usually forget about it when I'm at the range.So it doesn't get tested out. Thanks again guys.
 
I would think having less then lethal ammo loaded for a first round would look good in court if the lawyers are trying to prove excessive force aginst a homeowner. For the most part I feel pretty safe in Canada and don't anticipate having to deal with armed intruders but if a person is wondering around their house with a loaded gun checking out some noise and surprises a theif there is a chance the gun may go off just from nerves alone. If the theif is unarmed it would probably be better to accidently shoot them with less lethal ammo first and have more lethal ammo ready for a second shot that required more force if the person is armed and attacking. I'm sure a few will respond that our lives are not worth the chance of not stopping an attack cold with the first blast but If I lived in a place that required that much protection I would probably move. I think everyone agrees that Slugs and Buckshot are better killers then Birdshot but the question is do most of us require this level of killing power? I would think that if someone got hit by a blast of birdshot at close range it would take them a few seconds to realize they were not dead and that would be plenty of time for a second shot if required. I wonder what a load of Birdshot would do to someone's face at close range? Probably would not penetrate to the vital organ but might cause a mild burning sensation and perhaps blurred vision.
 
Bean bag - Buck - Buck - Slug - Slug

I eliminated the references to flechettes and other stuff that is prohib in Canada. They don't advocate bean bags in the article, I add to my personal load due to the ####ed laws here, shows a bit of compassion?

Firearms Tactical Institute
Tactical Briefs #10, October 1998
Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition

For home defense, a shotgun is superior to a handgun in terms of being able to stop a violent intruder as quickly as possible. A reliable, well-made, pump-action shotgun can usually be purchased for less than the cost of a handgun of comparable quality. Also, inexpensive birdshot ammunition, typically used for training applications, is about three-fourths the cost, round for round, of comparable handgun ammunition.

Most people typically choose a shotgun for home defense for one of three general reasons: 1) to minimize wall penetration to reduce the danger to innocent third parties in case of a missed shot, 2) to maximize wound trauma to stop a vicious assailant as quickly as possible, or 3) because a shotgun does not require as much skill as a handgun to put lead on target.

If you're considering a shotgun for home defense or already have one, we suggest you give some serious thought to attending a one or two day "defensive shotgun" training course from a reputable shooting school. (We have a few schools listed on our Links page.) It's one thing to be armed with a well-equipped, high-tech shotgun and premium personal defense ammunition, but if you're not a skilled shotgun operator, you're the weakest link in your last-ditch home defense weapon system.

Shotgun Pellet Wound Ballistics
A shotgun pellet produces wound trauma by crushing the tissue it comes into direct contact with as it penetrates. In order to produce wound trauma that will be effective in quickly stopping an attacker, the pellets must penetrate his body deeply enough to be able to pass through a vital cardiovascular structure and cause rapid fatal hemorrhage to quickly deprive the brain of oxygenated blood needed to maintain consciousness.

Shotgun pellets are classified into two general categories: 1) birdshot, of which individual pellets are typically less than .20 caliber in diameter, and 2) buckshot, which varies in diameter from .24 caliber to .36 caliber.

Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.

Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin. Not all of the pellets penetrate this deeply however; most of the shot will penetrate about 4 inches.

Federal Personal Defense Shotshell
Federal Cartridge Company offers reduced recoil Personal Defense Shotshells in 12 gauge and 20 gauge. Both are loaded with #2 lead birdshot. According to Federal's 1998 catalog, the shotshells propel their pellet payloads at a velocity of 1140 fps.

12 Gauge Shotshell Ammunition
For personal defense and law enforcement applications, the International Wound Ballistics Association advocates number 1 buckshot as being superior to all other buckshot sizes.

Number 1 buck is the smallest diameter shot that reliably and consistently penetrates more than 12 inches of standard ordnance gelatin when fired at typical shotgun engagement distances. A standard 2 Âľ-inch 12 gauge shotshell contains 16 pellets of #1 buck. The total combined cross sectional area of the 16 pellets is 1.13 square inches. Compared to the total combined cross sectional area of the nine pellets in a standard #00 (double-aught) buck shotshell (0.77 square inches), the # 1 buck shotshell has the capacity to produce over 30 percent more potentially effective wound trauma.

In all shotshell loads, number 1 buckshot produces more potentially effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck. In addition, number 1 buck is less likely to over-penetrate and exit an attacker's body.

For home defense applications a standard velocity 2 Âľ-inch #1 buck shotshell (16 pellet payload) from Federal, Remington or Winchester is your best choice. We feel the Federal Classic 2 Âľ-inch #1 buck load (F127) is slightly better than the same loads offered by Remington and Winchester. The Federal shotshell uses both a plastic shot cup and granulated plastic shot buffer to minimize post-ignition pellet deformation, whereas the Remington and Winchester loads do not.

Second best choice is Winchester's 2 Âľ-inch Magnum #1 buck shotshell, which is loaded with 20 pieces of copper-plated, buffered, hardened lead #1 buckshot. For those of you who are concerned about a tight shot pattern, this shotshell will probably give you the best patterning results in number 1 buck. This load may not be a good choice for those who are recoil sensitive.

Third choice is any standard or reduced recoil 2 Âľ-inch #00 lead buckshot load from Winchester, Remington or Federal.

If you choose a reduced recoil load or any load containing hardened Magnum #00 buckshot you increase the risk of over-penetration because these innovations assist in maintaining pellet shape integrity. Round pellets have better sectional density for deeper penetration than deformed pellets.

Fourth choice is any 2 Âľ-inch Magnum shotshell that is loaded with hardened, plated and buffered #4 buckshot. The Magnum cartridge has the lowest velocity, and the lower velocity will help to minimize pellet deformation on impact. The hardened buckshot and buffering granules also help to minimize pellet deformation too. These three innovations help to maximize pellet penetration. Number 4 hardened buckshot is a marginal performer. Some of the hardened buckshot will penetrate at least 12 inches deep and some will not.

From a strict wound ballistics standpoint, we feel the Federal Classic 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 2 buckshot cartridge is the best choice. It contains 18 pellets of number 2 buckshot in a plastic shotcup with granulated plastic shot buffer.

However, the Federal Classic load might produce too much recoil for some people. Given this consideration, Remington's Premier Buckshot 2 Âľ-inch 20 gauge number 3 buckshot cartridge is the next best choice. This load contains 20 pieces of nickel-plated, hardened lead shot that is buffered to reduce pellet deformation from post ignition acceleration and terminal impact. The Remington buckshot load will probably produce the tightest shot patterns in 20 gauge shotguns.

Third place is Winchester's 3-inch 20 gauge Magnum number 3 buckshot cartridge, which contains 24 pieces of buffered, copper-plated, hardened lead shot.

Shotgun Slugs, Flechettes and Exotic Ammunition for Home Defense?
Unless you live on acreage and anticipate engaging bad guys at distances beyond 25 yards, shotgun slugs are not a good choice for home defense, because of their enormous capability to over-penetrate a human body and common building materials.

There are other various exotic shotshells that are best classified as gimmicks. These include rubber buckshot, bean bags, steel washers, rock salt, "Dragon's Breath," bird bombs, ceramic slugs, "bolo" projectiles and so on. The efficacy of these loads is questionable at best, and we advise you to avoid them altogether for this simple reason.

Summary
With the right load, a shotgun can be very effective in quickly stopping the deadly violence being perpetrated by a criminal who's invaded your home.

If you're worried that a missed shot might penetrate through a wall and harm others, load your shotgun so that the first one or two cartridges to be fired is number 6 or smaller birdshot, followed by standard lead #1 buckshot (12 gauge) or #3 buckshot (20 gauge). If your first shot misses, the birdshot is less likely to endanger innocent lives outside the room. If your first shot fails to stop the attacker, you can immediately follow-up with more potent ammunition.

With birdshot you are wise to keep in mind that your gunfire has the potential to NOT PRODUCE an effective wound. Do not expect birdshot to have any decisive effect.

Number 1 buckshot has the potential to produce more effective wound trauma than either #00 or #000 buck, without the accompanying risk of over-penetration. The IWBA believes, with very good reason, that number 1 buckshot is the shotshell load of choice for quickly stopping deadly criminal violence.

Shotgun barrel length does not affect our shotshell recommendions.





 
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Just some food for thought for those, who think that birdshot has not enough stopping power. My friend had shot his some 300-400 lb pig with a 1" piece of pine knot, loaded into 2 3/4" 12ga shotgun. The knot had crushed the scull and splintered inside the brain. This had also nearly broken the neck section of the pig's spine. Weight of the knot was way less than of the birdshot.
 
Can-down said:
I would think having less then lethal ammo loaded for a first round would look good in court if the lawyers are trying to prove excessive force aginst a homeowner.

Yes, but the court will not regard birdshot as "less than lethal". With regards to beanbags... they have a minimum safe range, which you are unlikely to be over inside your house. You MAY look better if you load these... but don't be too shocked if there's still blood when you use them.
 
svt-40 said:
Just some food for thought for those, who think that birdshot has not enough stopping power. My friend had shot his some 300-400 lb pig with a 1" piece of pine knot, loaded into 2 3/4" 12ga shotgun. The knot had crushed the scull and splintered inside the brain. This had also nearly broken the neck section of the pig's spine. Weight of the knot was way less than of the birdshot.

Lighter than a single pellet of birdshot? I seriously doubt that. Birdshot's lack of penetration is NOT due to low total mass (some have as much mass of pellets as a typical slug) but due to low individual mass. It is not surprising that a solid piece of wood would penetrate better than birdshot.
 
Short on time today, but I fired one shot. 1 1/8oz, 7.5 shot at 10 paces. A hole about the size of a pie plate clear through 3/4" marine grade plywood. I/C choke used.
 
Ok, hold on a sec...

I'll put some #8 Bird shot in a shotgun here and place the muzzle on my chest... after I've shot it I will bandage it and post pictures. Hopefully one of the "shot" doesn't slip past a rib.

:rolleyes:
 
It looks like there are so many variables involved that you can"t count on getting the results you want.One time the guy you want to scare dies the next time the guy you need to kill before he gets you is only peppered and really mad.
 
Waterfowler said:
Short on time today, but I fired one shot. 1 1/8oz, 7.5 shot at 10 paces. A hole about the size of a pie plate clear through 3/4" marine grade plywood. I/C choke used.

Wow, that must have been some pretty wicked ammo... 10 paces, that about 20 feet right?

The last time I shot at a piece of plywood with bird shot, I was glad I was wearing safety glass! Because a whole lot of shots bounced back.

Here's a few guys who got shot by birdshot...
http://www.ballistics-experts.com/Forensic ballistics/Wound & Terminal ballistics/Fig 1.htm
http://www.trauma.org/imagebank/wounds/images/wound0017.html
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic3045.htm

For what it's worth, it took me quite a few shots of #6 to go thru my last snowman :D It was fun.

Birdshots are for little bird...
Mike.
 
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Remington Gun Club target loads.


sillymike said:
Wow, that must have been some pretty wicked ammo... 10 paces, that about 20 feet right?

The last time I shot at a piece of plywood with bird shot, I was glad I was wearing safety glass! Because a whole lot of shots bounced back.

Here's a few guys who got shot by birdshot...
http://www.ballistics-experts.com/Forensic ballistics/Wound & Terminal ballistics/Fig 1.htm
http://www.trauma.org/imagebank/wounds/images/wound0017.html
http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic3045.htm

For what it's worth, it took me quite a few shots of #6 to go thru my last snowman :D It was fun.

Birdshots are for little bird...
Mike.
 
I think any shots above the shoulder or in the chest area would incompacitate any intruder. Shotgun to the chest at close quarters would knock anyone onto their asses IMO.

IMO don't know of any thief who would stay around if they have been shot or shot at. I would reference all the videos of thieves trying to steal from a store owner, once the thief catches sight of a gun or have been fired upon they usually book it for the door.
 
Years ago, we had a call with a kid who offed himself w/ 12 ga, 870 Remmy. He blew a 2" hole in his sternum with bird shot, however he was leaning on the barrel, tight against his chest...
 
yeah just about every article ive read has mentioned either #1 or #4 Buck as the best choice and has recommened to stay away from Birdshot.

I think loading Bird shot as a less than lethal first shot is a bad idea...I dont see the courts making a destinction...just like cops are trained to shoot to wound...
 
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