What would you pay for legal full cap AR15 magazines?

Btt for interest and a new question... well two:

1. AR15 pistols use mags identical to AR15 rifle mags that are just stamped PISTOL. Why can't one desing a bolt gun that fits AR15 mags and mark them BOLT GUN MAGAZINE. Then just not go around advertising that it takes AR15 mags like Remington did?

2. Also all this talk about modifying your AR lower... why can't you modify the mags? Develop a bolt gun that takes mags identical to AR mags but with a tab on each side that prevents it from fitting an AR. If it just so happens you can snip off the thin tabs, or grind off the nubs, or whatever, and it fits an AR, you should be good right? I'd much rather snip off some metal from a $100 mag than cut out my mag well.

It seems to me that the whole Remington problem is caused by the fact that it uses an AR15 mag well and they advertised it as accepting commonly available AR15 mags. As per the CX4 storm issue, the mags are identical to the pistol mags. You shouldn't need any new tooling, all you should need is an AR mag manufacturer to stamp "blah blah bolt action rifle" on them and have the corresponding bolt action rifle that they fit.

Taken from the CFC:

As set out in Criminal Code Regulations, some large-capacity magazines are prohibited regardless of the class of firearm to which the magazines are attached. As a general rule, the maximum magazine capacity is:

5 cartridges for most magazines designed for a semi-automatic centre-fire long gun; or
10 cartridges for most handgun magazines
A large-capacity magazine is not prohibited if it has been permanently altered so that it cannot hold more than the number of cartridges allowed by law. Acceptable ways to alter a magazine are set out in the regulations.

There is no limit to the magazine capacity for semi-automatic rim-fire long guns, or for other long guns that are not semi-automatics.
 
Yeah I think that quote was the dumbed down version.

But sorry, wouldn't it still be manufactured for a bolt gun, but modified to fit a semi? I think it would be hard to call cutting off some tabs manufacturing when that's just a fragment of the whole already assembled mag?
 
mopar guy said:
Yeah I think that quote was the dumbed down version.

But sorry, wouldn't it still be manufactured for a bolt gun, but modified to fit a semi? I think it would be hard to call cutting off some tabs manufacturing when that's just a fragment of the whole already assembled mag?
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The RCMP has made it very clear in various letters of correspondence posted here in a couple of the CGN forums that they don't want legal 30rd mags that fit in AR15s. It's a safe bet that they'll use every bureaucratic grey area in their favour to prevent 30rd mags.
 
cancer said:
The RCMP has made it very clear in various letters of correspondence posted here in a couple of the CGN forums that they don't want legal 30rd mags that fit in AR15s. It's a safe bet that they'll use every bureaucratic grey area in their favour to prevent 30rd mags.
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... and it sucks.
 
Is there no appeal process for once the RCMP declare something prohibited? What's TSE doing about those 22lr MP5's? Money aside, can one not fight an RCMP ruling?
 
It might be difficult. The circumstances would have to be right in order to fight it in court. You would need to have legal standing with regards to the issue...essentially be an "injured" party prior to the issue coming before a judge. Or at least that's the way that it seems to me on the outside, looking in. With a 5 round mag.
 
mopar guy said:
Is there no appeal process for once the RCMP declare something prohibited? What's TSE doing about those 22lr MP5's? Money aside, can one not fight an RCMP ruling?
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They don't exactly "declare" it prohibited... what they do is examine the item and then they give their "expert opinion" of how it is classified based on the legislation. If you want to fight their ruling all you have to do is get your hands on one and get yourself "charged" with the offence. The crown will call the RCMP tech people to give their "expert opinion" and why they believe it is "prohibited" then it is up to you to fight it out in court and convince a judge that they are wrong and you are right. If you win then you get to fight the various appeals that the crown will surely launch... until you run out of money and energy or you finally reach the Supreme Court and get lucky enough to win.

Good luck with that :)

Mark
 
Last thing we need is another BM case, we all know how much it cost him. But:

Say if Armedsask or Sxyglock had say, 200 hours and lots of expenses into developing either mags or rifles, could they not sue on grounds of the RCMP crippling their business venture? Sure for expenses and investments lost as well as legal fees?

I would find it hard to believe that even the most liberal judge could rule against it with the cold hard FACT that the Beretta Storm and AR pistol mag rulings have already set a precident in our favour? They are scumbags, but they do have to follow the law.

I'm no lawyer, but what if one were to order 100 30rd mags from some US maufacturer with Dlask PAC5 or Remington 7615 stamped on them, then sue for the $1500 they're out plus projected losses of $375,000 for 5000 mags sold at $75 a piece?

I dunno, just a thought... or wishful thinking
 
Also keep in mind that you're asking a government appointed judge to award you damages...and that the defendant will be the very government that appointed the judge. Even if those damages are awarded, that victory may not result in changing of any laws or regulations, or even in the reversal of an RCMP decision.

Judicial independence is a fundamental concept in a functioning democracy - but it only goes so far. Most governments do not generally appoint judges with views that differ all that substantially from their own agenda.
 
But what happens when the RCMP expert witness holds up one of your mags and an AR15 mag and says "These are identical, hence prohibited"

Then you hold up a CX4 storm mag, and a beretta pistol mag, and say "then how come this pistol mag isn't prohibited based on your expert opinion?" or "what's the difference between this 10 round AR pistol mag and this 5 round AR rifle mag or this 30rd 7615 mag, other than the fact that they have different names stamped on them, and only one is prohibited???"

And would one have more luck than BM if they were out in the west, BC AB or SK?
 
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Let's get Armedsask's billet lowers in hand and go from there.
The more that take the current 10 rounders the better.
 
Hey armedsask -you should apply for a government "young entrepreneurs grant":D My roommate's got one of those for ontario and it's great. That way they'll be funding your adventure with tax dollars! Seems no one applies for them either, so you've got a pretty good chance in most places.
 
H Wally said:
Hey armedsask -you should apply for a government "young entrepreneurs grant":D My roommate's got one of those for ontario and it's great. That way they'll be funding your adventure with tax dollars! Seems no one applies for them either, so you've got a pretty good chance in most places.
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Hmm, that's not a bad idea. I don't have my own company though so I'm not sure it would work.

Maybe I'll start a company whose only purpose is to apply for grants. :D
 
there's an age cap on those type of grants, i know i missed out on them when i started my biz. i forget the details, but if you go to the small biz center in your area they can shed the light on your options. as for not having a company, register a name for a hundred or so and away you go.
 
Wouldn't you need to show a business plan or some junk like that?

I doubt you can just stole in the say, "I have a company, give me money."

Any idea what the age cap was?
 
I haven't read the whole thread, and perhaps this was mentionned before, but here's a thought.

Designing a bolt-action rifle based on a common action should be fairly simple. Note, I say fairly.

Now, if the magazine was a little narrower than an AR15 mag to fit in that new rifle of yours and stamped as to being manufactured for that rifle, it would be legit, right?

Now, all that it would require to fit in an AR receiver would be an adapter. Somewhat similar to what the CX4 requires to feed on regular pistol mags, which is legal.
 
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