What's the most useless caliber

tactical lever said:
Interesting, if it didn't take such a red-headed step child of a bullet size. Why not just .308 cal bullets already.
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125, 150, 174, 180, 215 grain bullet choices, not sure what else you need for North American hunting?

Another fantastic .311 cartridge that has fallen from the spotlight is the 7.65x53mm Mauser.
 
in my Ruger 77 44 carbine i can push a 270 grs at 1950 fps without pressure signs with litt'l gun powder not far behind 444 so i have to agree 444 pretty useless... JP.
 
.450 Marlin

Hard to reload, few rifles available, expensive factory ammo and nothing that a 45/70 can't do. In Canada it's even harder to own one.
 
I can't believe the amount of people that dislike the 17cal. Have you even owned or shot one? I have a 17FB and it's cheap to load for, an honest 300+ yard coyote rifle and has virtually no recoil so you can spot your hits. It's also quiet enough that you don't need ear protection when you don't have the time to put them on. I fail to see the downside to this caliber.
 
KDX said:
I can't believe the amount of people that dislike the 17cal. Have you even owned or shot one? I have a 17FB and it's cheap to load for, an honest 300+ yard coyote rifle and has virtually no recoil so you can spot your hits. It's also quiet enough that you don't need ear protection when you don't have the time to put them on. I fail to see the downside to this caliber.
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I have shot it many times but never owned one or even had the urge to own one. I find it redundent as it is not "wayyy" better than the .22 WMR yet costs nearly as much to shoot as the far superior .223Rem. For targets, the hole is difficult to see past 100 yds even with a good spotting scope unless it is on a clean white background. I own a few .22LR & .223Rem. I have little use for something in between that costs that much for ammo. YMMV. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
 
caramel said:
in my Ruger 77 44 carbine i can push a 270 grs at 1950 fps without pressure signs with litt'l gun powder not far behind 444 so i have to agree 444 pretty useless... JP.
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Trying some 265gr loads with CCI primers out of a Marlin 44 Mag I had the loan of, once I got beyond the 1600 f/sec level I was noticing signs of upper 'acceptable' preasure. Yet you had no signs of preasure with a load at velocities about 250 f/sec above maximums 'suggested' in the Hornady manual. Interesting. If so, just think how much higher you could boast the velocities of the 444, chambered in a Ruger m-77, bolt action. Oh, by the way, for their load listings, Hornady used a Ruger Carbine.
 
tactical lever said:
Whoops, I'm going to tick everyone off tonight. The rifle load sounds pretty tame. The case capacity being what it is, in a suitable rifle should be hotter than that. I believe one of our nutters was hitting 2200 with 240 gr. Of course, not recommended in the manuals and handily exceeded with handloaded .444. Still however limited by bullets.

Again, not that it's "bad", just that the 45-70 will do all of that and more.
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No denying that and perhaps that 's why I have one of each:p. A good part of the beauty of what we have is the wide variety of choices and how we can taylor the selection and use to our conditions. You're quite correct in saying anything the 444 can do, the 45-70 can also handle plus. You could use that same rationale in a comparison of the 444 or 45-70 with a classic like the 38-55 and be correct but it would be a shame to lose the 38-55 for that reason.
 
tactical lever said:
That's more or less my point. Does't mess up too much meat. Just that it's harder to get a bullet that won't fragment on bone at this velocity when the target is 20 yards away, but still opens reliably at 1/2 a km away on a softer target.

As for the .311, again if a 308, or 30-06 will do the same thing with a much more commonly available bullet; more choices.....

It's bad enough searching for cartridges or brass. I'd own one, I just wouldn't go out of my way to buy a new one.
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Not having bloodshot meat at 20 yards is a tough call for any bullet launched past abotu 2200 FPS. But if you are going to shoot 3500FPS, there is only one choice for me, and that is the TTSX.;) I shot a deer at 20 yards with the 130gr TTSX at 3500fps and while one shoulder was a bit chewed up, it amounted to about 2-3 lbs of lost meat. Not a big deal, really....
 
Johnn Peterson said:
No denying that and perhaps that 's why I have one of each:p. A good part of the beauty of what we have is the wide variety of choices and how we can taylor the selection and use to our conditions. You're quite correct in saying anything the 444 can do, the 45-70 can also handle plus. You could use that same rationale in a comparison of the 444 or 45-70 with a classic like the 38-55 and be correct but it would be a shame to lose the 38-55 for that reason.
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Well if it was all utility, I suppose we'd all shoot 30-06 out of Savages or Remington 700s. Great cartridge, and good general shape. Ever notice a few of the real good ones resemble the 30-06 in proportion?

Well I'm glad to hear you got a real caliber and that those moose were ballistically challenged, but you clearly do not know the limitations of your .444! As an act of charity, I would take it off your hands, just for general fooling around with, so you can concentrate on working up good loads for the Gov! :p
 
iroc22 said:
125, 150, 174, 180, 215 grain bullet choices, not sure what else you need for North American hunting?

Another fantastic .311 cartridge that has fallen from the spotlight is the 7.65x53mm Mauser.
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Well not too much, but you don't have the array of choices, that the much more popular .308 has. I would say the same thing about that size, if it were as obscure.

Not that I don't like some of the oddball stuff, but why pick the oddball when you've so much more choice by losing 3 thou?
 
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tactical lever said:
Well if it was all utility, I suppose we'd all shoot 30-06 out of Savages or Remington 700s. Great cartridge, and good general shape. Ever notice a few of the real good ones resemble the 30-06 in proportion?

Well I'm glad to hear you got a real caliber and that those moose were ballistically challenged, but you clearly do not know the limitations of your .444! As an act of charity, I would take it off your hands, just for general fooling around with, so you can concentrate on working up good loads for the Gov! :p
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When I first got my 444S, with the Remington factory ammo that was available, I thought there was definately room for improvement, especially for use on big game. For my use and experience, 'things' improved dramatically with reloads using the Hornady 265gr FP. It was later, fairly recently actually, that I acquired my 1895GS. The 444S still has its place for me but if I had neither and had to make a choice, admittedly I'd go with the Guide Gun.

In the 1895GS, with jacketed bullets, ;)I have good loads worked up with either the 400gr Speer or the 405gr Remington:p.
 
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