Why would a EE seller ask for "scan of PAL and drivers to complete sale"

blaxsun said:
Sure, let's add dealers or brokers as intermediaries... or better yet, let's scrap C-19 and go back to the chains just so we can have our "due diligence"... Or maybe we'll just put the onus on the person breaking the law (ie: the unlicensed buyer or seller).
:puke:
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You can put the onus where you want but I won't be the one spending tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers fees over the sale of $300 shotgun sold to someone on EE without due diligence. I'm no fan of the LGR but if you think that now that it is gone you don't have to do a verification, think again.

If I sell unrestricted guns on EE I will be doing a CFC verification, address, DOB and PAL verification. If that isn't amenable to folks out there, well then I guess that sale won't happen. I'd rather lose all the sales then be shelling out $50,000 to keep myself out of jail and try to recuperate my collection.
 
Norincodude said:
You can put the onus where you want but I won't be the one spending tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers fees over the sale of $300 shotgun sold to someone on EE without due diligence. I'm no fan of the LGR but if you think that now that it is gone you don't have to do a verification, think again.

If I sell unrestricted guns on EE I will be doing a CFC verification, address, DOB and PAL verification. If that isn't amenable to folks out there, well then I guess that sale won't happen. I'd rather lose all the sales then be shelling out $50,000 to keep myself out of jail and try to recuperate my collection.
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What's a "PAL verification" and how does this differ from a "CFC verification"? How do you plan to verify the address? (since the CFC can't for privacy/security reasons) And how do you plan to verify the PAL: Have someone send you a picture of them posing with their PAL and toddy's newspaper...?

Looks like the anti's have already won: folks are absolutely petrified now to sell their non-restricteds...
 
blaxsun said:
What's a "PAL verification" and how does this differ from a "CFC verification"? How do you plan to verify the address? (since the CFC can't for privacy/security reasons) And how do you plan to verify the PAL: Have someone send you a picture of them posing with their PAL and toddy's newspaper...?

Looks like the anti's have already won: folks are absolutely petrified now to sell their non-restricteds...
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This is probably why we are going to have to end up going to dealers for pick up. The Antis are going to be looking for fvckups, post-LGR, and unrestricted guns going to people not authorized to have them will be the low hanging fruit.
 
Norincodude said:
This is probably why we are going to have to end up going to dealers for pick up. The Antis are going to be looking for fvckups, post-LGR, and unrestricted guns going to people not authorized to have them will be the low hanging fruit.
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As soon as you start tacking on a $50-$100 brokering fee for this service, the game is over. Have you considered the possibility that dealers won't want to get involved - and why would they?! Who would want the legal and financial responsibility of being the intermediary who now has to vet both the buyer and seller...
 
blaxsun said:
As soon as you start tacking on a $50-$100 brokering fee for this service, the game is over. Have you considered the possibility that dealers won't want to get involved - and why would they?! Who would want the legal and financial responsibility of being the intermediary who now has to vet both the buyer and seller...
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I see your point but we're still left with the problem that will be caused by the low hanging fruit. Believe me, we're going to see a lot of squashed apples around here if we don't address this problem.
 
Norincodude said:
I see your point but we're still left with the problem that will be caused by the low hanging fruit. Believe me, we're going to see a lot of squashed apples around here if we don't address this problem.
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Even with the limited PAL verification through the CFC, this will only tell you if the PAL is valid or not. It won't be able to verify the address or if the person you're dealing with is the actual PAL holder. EMTs and money orders have a tendency to originate from different individuals, as well.

Other than a FTF transaction (which arguably isn't possible for most online sales where any distance is involved), anything short of someone posing for a photo in front of their home with their PAL, driver's license and today's newspaper clearly displayed probably isn't going to cut it.

Looks like we'll be retaining everyone at the CFC just to run PAL verification checks...
 
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This confirms that a PAL holder lives at the shipping address. That would do me. I don't care what their PAL# is, or what they look like.
You would keep the expiry date on the PAL, I'm just being paranoid here.
 
People are just cautious. You will need to see a PAL one way or another, and you will need the address eventually for shipping.

I think I would call in the PAL # to confirm licence. Better do the due diligence than find out you just sold a gun to a government "baiter" without a licence check
 
blaxsun said:
Looks like we'll be retaining everyone at the CFC just to run PAL verification checks...
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With the number of weak sisters on this site they'll be hiring new staff for those too afraid to do anything without the blessing of Miramichi.

Now some of them are talking about having mail transactions go through dealers just to be safe. :rolleyes:
 
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soulchaser said:
wtf?
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Lookie here:


Norincodude said:
Some verification protocol will have to be put in place. C-19 is too vague on that aspect and will result in unintended consequences. I've been acquiring firearms from before the FAC days. There was no Internet, no Skype, no faxes. The technology has changed and the rules have changed. Those who think that that gives them permission to sell and buy without due diligence have got their heads buried in the sand. It wouldn't surprise me if we went to the US system where mail orders have to go through an FFL dealer.
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NO!
 
blaxsun said:
There's no name or photo. How do I know it's you? ; (just playing devil's advocate)
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If there was a name and a photo, how do you know it's me? It doesn't matter who you are selling it to, as long as they have a PAL.
If the dob's match, you are shipping to a PAL owner. You could keep the initials on if you are a nervous Nellie.

The dealer thing, somebody gonna get a hurt real bad! Maybe ship it to your local RCMP, I wouldn't trust you with a gun if you are so easily scared.
 
Claybuster said:
With the number of weak sisters on this site they'll be hiring new staff for those two afraid to do anything without the blessing of Miramichi.
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You know the saying: "Be careful what you wish for"... Semi-related, I did have an interesting conversation with the CFC: They indicated there's no legal requirement for anyone to verify a PAL with the CFC (so it sounds optional), and they are able to somewhat validate an address (that we provide) with basically a "looks ok" or "some discrepancies". Your mileage may vary on the latter over the coming weeks and depending on whom you speak with at the CFC.
 
Juster said:
If there was a name and a photo, how do you know it's me? It doesn't matter who you are selling it to, as long as they have a PAL.
If the dob's match, you are shipping to a PAL owner. You could keep the initials on if you are a nervous Nellie.

The dealer thing, somebody gonna get a hurt real bad! Maybe ship it to your local RCMP, I wouldn't trust you with a gun if you are so easily scared.
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So.... by you rlogic, anyone in BC can use what you just posted and buy a gun using that picture?.... smart!
 
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