Semi-Sten: CFC AND RCMP approved and Home at Last

The Mp18 had a swept-back mag housing to accomodate the highly angled luger mag. It would NOT be fittable to a stock Sten housing - you would have to re-design it.
 
Just being curious, is there anyone else than me wanting to build a SAS3 from a Sten Mk3 parts kit (that I already have).

I know, another mk means another FRT# and all the trouble that go with it.

Hell, I don't even know WHO to contact (by mail if even possible) to get the OK before I actualy build anything from that Mk3 parts kit.

Oh ! Still have to wait for a Canadian conversion kit OR the assurance that SAS3 conversion kits CAN be shipped to Canada.

It may sound more than historically unaccurate but I want to make that an unrestricted weapon with the addition of a fake silencer just to cover the otherwise too long barrel, unless... the tube itself and the barrel being kept to 23 inches total length; making a barrel 12 inches SHOULD cover it while being only 4 inches or so "over" from the original barrel length. Am I right?
Tube : 18½" and original barrel: 7¾" (6.66" between the trunnions.)

All ideas are more than welcome


J. Savoie
 
Because you are making a centerfire semi auto the barrel will have to be 18-1/2 inches long. If you are going with the mk3 version, then the silencer may look a bit out of place. There was a mk2 with a very long silencer.

I am not sure what the CFC will do about another mark of sten. I have not seen the FRT page for my gun. There was a FRT entry for generic homebuilt rifles, and they seemed to lump any homebuilt bolt action into it. Perhaps they will do the same for the SAS-3 rather than have multiple entries for the variety of Mks, calibers, barrel lengths, and other variables.
 
Last edited:
Well, then I might just as well scrape a few bucks more and go the restricted route for the Mk3 and try to find another deal as the one you offer (lack of spare money for the present moment) and buy a Mk2 parts kit for I don't think finding the barrel nut and magwell parts would be enough to convert my Mk3 parts kit into suitable parts for a Mk2 SAS like yours. Unless I'd be lucky enough to find those later. :confused: The problem is that I don't wanna sell anything I have :D
Though I do have a WW2 dated Vickers ammo belt in .303 but who the hell would ever need such a thing? Thought about throwing it into the garbage but still, someday I might buy another Vickers (C/A) or even unrestricted, like the Browning M1919 that are offered now. So many questions, so few answers ...

J. Savoie
 
Well,

I had a sit down at lunch today with the NS CFO, a very personable fellow!

We first discussed and dealt with verifying the .22 LR upper for my AR-15. No problems with that at all, and we had some good discussion about service rifle shooting and Bisley...he was once over in the UK as an RCMP officer, where they trounced the Brit army guys in a pistol match, then had their hats handed to them on a pop-up Electronic Target Range. I know the range he was discussing, having shot on it before, and so that was a merry time.

Then I presented him with the following letter:

Re. Home Built Firearm Semi-Auto Sten MK II FRT#: 126844-1

Mr. CFO,

It is my intent to construct a home-built firearm based on the “SAS-3” or Semi-Auto-Sten kit as found here: http://www.semiautosten.com/ I am aware that a sample of this type of firearm has already been constructed, submitted to the RCMP for registration and verification, and has been assigned the FRT Number shown above.

With the standard barrel length of 7.7 inches, this will be a restricted firearm. This firearm is semi-automatic only, fires from a closed bolt, and will be limited to 5 round magazines due to it being a center-fire semi-automatic rifle.

Full details (including pictorial progress) showing the steps for the construction of this rifle can be found at the following website, and I am co-ordinating with the original builder of the first SAS-3 to get technical assistance in constructing mine. I intend to similarly document the construction progress of my project.

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=2403

I have not yet commenced construction of this firearm, first wishing to receive permission in writing to proceed with this project.

I appreciate your time, and look forward to your reply.

Sincerely,
Click to expand...

We spent a few minutes digging into the FRT, and his CD copy did not have the entry, so we used the online tool to dig up the info. I have a copy of it which he printed off for me here now.

He was fully supportive of the endeavour, wishing me luck with it, and said that he'd reply in writing for my files, approving my plan to proceed with the construction.

So.

Step 1 of my process has been completed. CFO approval received.

Step 2, gather parts.....

StenCollector, if you'd like, I can photocopy and mail copies of the FRT print-off to you if you'd like?

NS
 
The CD FRT doesn't have the SAS, because it is too new. This is the advantage of the on-line version, for those who can access it.
I suspect that the FRT number assigned to Stencollector's Mk. II version would not apply to a MK. I, Mk. III or Mk. V type. A different barrel length or caliber might receive a -2, -3, etc, if it resembled a Mk. II.
The section of the FRT dealing with original Stens does list quite a number of different carbines, with different FRT numbers for Mk. II guns of different manufacture, for example.
There may be a generic FRT number for bolt action rifles, with -X suffixes for variations. I suspect that an application to register a 9mm bolt action rifle with an 8" barrel, and a 32 round magazine might attract a bit of attention.
With respect to a non-restricted length barrel - if the firearm is accepted and registered as non-restricted, a standard length barrel could not be swapped on.
 
NavyShooter said:
Well,



Step 1 of my process has been completed. CFO approval received.

Step 2, gather parts.....

StenCollector, if you'd like, I can photocopy and mail copies of the FRT print-off to you if you'd like?

NS
Click to expand...

For sure I would like a copy. I'll shoot you a PM.

Good luck on your build. There are a few guys on this thread that should be able to help you out if you run into any problems.

Likely the best thing about sticking to this already approved gun is that you should be able to have the PFO or any other verifier do the verification form and you should have a registration certificate in no time once it is built.

Edited to add: after skimming Spencer's last post, I went to try out the "ignore" feature of CGN. You simply go to his public profile, hit the add to ignore list" button on the right side of the screen below his name, and miraculously the "sten approved" thread is now a lot less cluttered. I must say, I like it. :)
 
Last edited:
tiriaq said:
There may be a generic FRT number for bolt action rifles, with -X suffixes for variations. I suspect that an application to register a 9mm bolt action rifle with an 8" barrel, and a 32 round magazine might attract a bit of attention.
With respect to a non-restricted length barrel - if the firearm is accepted and registered as non-restricted, a standard length barrel could not be swapped on.
Click to expand...

While you can't easily change the barrel on a mk3 anyway, you have a good point re the mk2 version. I guess the first step will be when someone registers a non-restricted version.
As shown a number of pages back, I have a longer barrel made for mine. I suppose I could make another magwell and tube assy, and just jump the bolt back and forth, since I currently only have one SAS bolt. But I still want to make my mkV version first.

Seems like I rarely get to go shooting other than on an approved range anyway. Even out here on the great plains of Manitoba, it is getting harder to find a gravel pit that isn't posted "No Trespassing". I have heard the same thing from a number of Saskatchewan shooters as well.
 
Here's the info from the FRT that I got today:

FRT Report
webFRT v2.07

Firearm Reference No 126844

Summary

Make: Homemade
Model: Sten MARK 2 Copy
Manufacturer: (Blank)
Level: Non-Commercial Customization
Type: Commercial Version
Action: Semi-Automatic
Country of Manufactuer: (Blank)
Serial Numbering: Numbered
Legal Classification: Restricted

Caliber, Shots and Barrel Length

Firearm Ref No: 126844-1
Caliber: 9mm LUGER
Shots: 5
Barrel (mm): 197
Legal Classification: Restricted
Legal Authority: CC 84(1) "Restricted Firearm" para. (b)
Level: Non-Commercial Customization
Barrel Type Code: (Blank)

Notes

Make
-Make is not found on the firearm.

Model
-"SAS-3 MK 2", "T-15 IND", "CANADA" and a serial number is marked on the magazine housing of the firearm.
-this firearm is a homemade semi-automatic only reproduction of a Second World War STEN MARK 2 submachine gun, distinguished by its all-metal welded construction.
-the basis of this fabrication is the SAS-3 (Semiautomatic Sten Mark 3) tube kit as sold by T-15 industries, salvaged scrap parts, and a homemade magazine housing; deemed to be the receiver/frame.
-features include: fixed open sights; a "wire loop frame" style stock; tubular construction; 7 3/4" / 197mm barrel, and magazine housing that extends to the left of the receiver tube, an AR-15 type firing pin and a specially manufactured bolt assembly from T-15 Industries.

Action
-closed-bolt, striker fired, blowback operated.

Serial Number
-observed serial number was located on the magazine housing.
-the observed serial number consisted of a number followed by a letter followed by two digits.

Shots
-detachable box magazine.

Canadian Law Comments
-this firearm has a homemade receiver/frame which, in conjuntion with SAS parts, supports only semi-automatic fire.

Cross-References
No Data Retrieved

Also Known As/Product Code
No Data Retrieved

Year Dates
No Data Retrieved

Importer
No Data Retrieved



 
According to Laidler, the very first Mk. Vs were made using altered Mk. II components, so there would be a precedent for using a Mk. II kit. The trigger housing would have to be extended at the rear end to shift the mechanism foreward, a block for the rear grip screw installed, and a trigger mechanism cover fabricated, if one from a V could not be found. When the new tube is fitted to the barrel block, the Mk. II front sight dovetail would disappear.
For the barrel, a 9mm blank could be turned down at the muzzle, and a bored out front end from a scrapped or sported No. 4 barrel sleeved over it.
There are drawings in Laidler of how a No. 4 butt was to be altered to make a Mk. V stock.

NavyShooter - Thanks for posting that FRT data.
 
Last edited:
SAS-3 Kit Availability

Well, this is a great thread.....and it keeps getting better. Thanks to all the pioneers for paving the way. So now that I have finally collected enough parts to seriously look at a build, I'll ask the question that has been asked several times throughout the thread, (and I will apologize for asking once more), but; Is there someone looking at bringing-in some of the SAS kits, or..........should I just try and get one on my own?
 
Claven2 said:
stencollector: do you have a MkV parts kit to use? Or do you make up repros for that purpose?
Click to expand...

I have possesion of a deactivated mkV example to use. As Tiraq mantions, the MkV is just a tarted up mk2. The back of a mk2 trigger mechanism gets cut off where the buttplate attaches, and then extended the appropriate amount. The mk5 just uses a simple flat plate at the back of the trigger mech, it won't accept a T stock.

The barrel nut gets reworked as well, by de-brazing the short piece of tube and replacing it with another that has just two rows of 6 holes rather than the 3 rows of 3 holes on a mk2.

Barrel will be modified as tiraq describes, and a locating pin installed in place of the front site of the mk2.

Rear pistol grip is copied, and the butt is a modified Enfield butt. Front grip will be an IMA repro.

I have done these changes in the past to mk2 dewats to make them into pseudo mkVs. Only problem with them is they come out too clean next to an original.

Thanks for posting the FRT Navy Shooter. That'll be mine alright. I number my homebuilds with the same type of sequence the Cdn military used to use....a series number followed by a letter indicating where the gun was built (In my case 'S') followed by a sequential serial.

Note that T-15 industries is no longer the producer of these kits. This registration thing took so long that another guy bought the rights during the whole process. He also incorporated an improvement to the hammer system.
 
Last edited:
NavyShooter said:
I intend to use the serial number from the 7L series dewat I have here....be kinda amusing to have two guns with the same serial number...

NS
Click to expand...

The 7L series of numbers are one of the more common in Cdn use. The majority of the 8L to 10L stens were for the Chinese. Then, in the low 11L series, they went back to Chinese script stens for the remainder of production (Highest number I have seen is 12L6950).
The Chinese 11L and 12L stens were diverted to Cdn and British use once the mutual aid contract to the Chinese was canceled.

Make sure you document your magwell build with photos. If you make it look too much like a LB, you may have to show that it is not.
 
Last edited:
I intend to fake up som Longbranch-Like markings on mine. It will be labelled as a "STEN MKIISA" I will document me applying the markings with hand punches so there is no chance of a misunderstanding :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom