.308, 00 buck, or slug for grizzly?!

I moved to Vancouver Island recently, Courtanay area.... and i realy do enjoy walking the trails close to the city. My self and my 10 year old daughter went up to some hiking trails south of mount washington and it didn't take long for us to see the sign's posted, warning me of black bears, cougars, and possibly grizzly "un-likely". I had nothign on me for defence at this point and was slightly worried... ok not being from BC i was worried....so we didn't go to far in.

You guys mention .308 and what not, i've basicly decided that if myself and my family hit the woods, my "Bear/Whatever" gun would be my non-restricted CZ-858, with softpoint 7.62x39mm. I train with it at the range, it's easy to unsling and put 1 in the pipe.

Any thoughts on this ?
 
skinnadoor said:
it's easy to unsling and put 1 in the pipe.

Any thoughts on this ?
Click to expand...

If it's slung and somthing wants you it will have you.

Again, the chances of attack are remote so don't lose too much sleep over it. However to put things in perspective for you a grizz can run as fast as a racehorse can, going uphill! If you had a rifle on your shoulder with a chamber empty the likelyhood of being able to put it in use is slim, you just wouldn't have the time. And that's why your 858 would be a bad choice in my opinion. If you are concerned enough to carry a gun for defense, that gun should be in your hand at the ready. An 858's pistol grip and magazine will make for very uncomfortable carry all day, the design just doesn't lend itself well for that. Even though a pistol grip may offer excellent control while your firing, your going to carry it more. A standard grip is relaxing on the hand and wrist and will allow you to carry it rested on your shoulder, craddled or any other way that allows quick access. An empty chamber is just as useless. I've seen a few critters and once had some trees growl at me. :)eek:) I've never been charged nor have I ever really felt threatened. Most of the instances where I actually saw bears they were quite content to keep feeding and carry on with their day. I gave them a wide girth and we were both happy. There was one instance where I could have stepped on a grizz and I was ready to chit myself but he never knew I was there and I kept it that way. But in that instance I didn't know he was there until the very last second when I heard those horrible, horrible claws start tearing apart a log or somthing. I never saw it but I knew it wasn't very far in front of me. Had he not started making that noise I would have been on him and I can't say what would have happened. My rifle was slung at that point. I learned from that if you are concerned, carry it. As for your cartridge choice, I wouldn't really want to rely on the 7.62x39 myself, not when I have other choices. But I supposed if it was all I had, I'd stagger my magazine with soft points and solids.
 
Rman said:
12 gauge slugs have been proven not to penetrate as well as rifle bullets. A 12 gauge would be an ok choice for bear defence, as you are not really trying to kill the bear, as much as you are trying to get it to go away. This does leave a mess for someone else to clean up.
Click to expand...

Frak. Where's the gorram facepalm smiley!?
 
Camp Cook said:
and then there are those that actually practice getting their rifle unslung and can fire them quickly... :D
Click to expand...

I seen that! Seems to work well for you. Have you tried the African carry thing, and how does it compare?

I want hands-free so I can ignore the gun while I work. I haven't figured a good way to carry a shottie with the sidesaddle holder - that thing always pokes me. Would like the firearm hanging cross-chest, pointed to ground port-side, but again the side-saddle is annoying. Maybe I'll ditch it. There's a gun-bearer thing that straps to a pack as well, points the gunskyward over your shoulder.

I dunno.
 
When I am in grizzly country I work hands free with a 4.25" SRH in 454 Casull with 6 405gr WLNGC's @ 1330fps on my hip, when I'm not in grizzly country I load it with 300gr XTP-Mag's @ 1550fps and when the bears are sleeping for the winter I load it with 6 300gr XTP 45 Colt's... :D

Don't need 454 Casull power/recoil in the winter...

Favorite holster carry method is cross draw or shoulder holster cross draw...

Favorite holsters are made by Bob Mernickle...

I practice all carry methods and I'm equally proficient in all of them the one you saw is just the most fun to do...

I do handgun draw and dry fire practice as well and follow Ross Siegfried's training technique's that he wrote about so many years ago...

Start slow and slowly work your draws until they a fluid, train your muscles so every action you do is a reflex that you do not think about it just happens...
 
Camp Cook said:
When I am in grizzly country I work hands free with a 4.25" SRH in 454 Casull with 6 405gr WLNGC's @ 1330fps on my hip, when I'm not in grizzly country I load it with 300gr XTP-Mag's @ 1550fps and when the bears are sleeping for the winter I load it with 6 300gr XTP 45 Colt's... :D

Don't need 454 Casull power/recoil in the winter...

Favorite holster carry method is cross draw or shoulder holster cross draw...

Favorite holsters are made by Bob Mernickle...

I practice all carry methods and I'm equally proficient in all of them the one you saw is just the most fun to do...

I do handgun draw and dry fire practice as well and follow Ross Siegfried's training technique's that he wrote about so many years ago...

Start slow and slowly work your draws until they a fluid, train your muscles so every action you do is a reflex that you do not think about it just happens...
Click to expand...

Sounds good. I s'pose an ATC is an option, but might not go over that well in camp as it's unusual. Not sure I could handle a .454 as I'd never practice sufficiently. Perhaps a 6" or 8" stainless 629 is the way to go (I could practice with a .38)? Better off with an SA revolver like the Super Blackhawk? I hear the recoil is easier to take as the gun rolls up into the palm-? A .44 magnum would be stop-gap and minimal, but it would be one hell of a lot easier to cart around than that 7 pound pig all the time. Sometimes I feel like a juggler.
 
skinnadoor said:
I moved to Vancouver Island recently, Courtanay area.... and i realy do enjoy walking the trails close to the city. My self and my 10 year old daughter went up to some hiking trails south of mount washington and it didn't take long for us to see the sign's posted, warning me of black bears, cougars, and possibly grizzly "un-likely". I had nothign on me for defence at this point and was slightly worried... ok not being from BC i was worried....so we didn't go to far in.

You guys mention .308 and what not, i've basicly decided that if myself and my family hit the woods, my "Bear/Whatever" gun would be my non-restricted CZ-858, with softpoint 7.62x39mm. I train with it at the range, it's easy to unsling and put 1 in the pipe.

Any thoughts on this ?
Click to expand...

There are a number of things to consider if you choose an CZ-858 for a defense gun. The first consideration would be appropriate ammunition. I haven't had anything to do with either an SKS or AK type rifles for quite sometime, but I do seem to recall that they feed best with spitzer bullets. I am not aware of any factory 7.62X39 ammo I would be comfortable with in the defense role, but handloading does make a difference.

If we consider suitable bullet weights and construction, 150 grs is about as heavy as is practical in the 7.62X39 case size. A Barnes 130 TSX or TTSX might prove better as it can be driven a bit faster and penetrate as well as the 150 at close range. The TSXs offers very reliable 1.5X expansion, so the 130 will produce performance equal to the 150 lead core bullet. A conventional 150 gr lead core spitzer is longer than a 150 gr lead core RN, and a 150 gr monometal bullet is longer yet. Too long a bullet might result in too long an COAL for relaible functioning. Choosing a 150 gr round nose bullet could result in feeding issues. Shooting a .308" bullet in for use in a .310" bore might not win a rifle match, but it will be accurate enough to kill a bear at close range.

As for power, the 7.62X39 runs on par with a .30/30, but truth be told I would choose the .30/30 first. It comes to personal preference on my part, plus I can use a flat nose, heavy for caliber cast bullet, which is not in the cards for a gas gun. Having said that, if you end up in a dangerous bear encounter, more often than not the trouble hunter is a sub-adult, rather than the half ton male of our nightmares. It takes less bullet mass and velocity to kill a smaller bear. On the other hand, the round should be a good choice for a cougar.

With respect to the rifle, being a moderately large guy, I find the stock of the SKS on the short and small side. To me, stock fit is extremely important on a defensive firearm, not just to moderate recoil, but for fast sight alignment as well. As I recall, the issue sights on an AK or an SKS are a crude narrow V open sight affair, which makes it difficult to pick up the front sight. It might be useful to open that rear sight to a shallow V, similar in shape to an express sight. The sight picture should be both easier and faster to pick up in all light conditions.

Before going all out to make your CZ a bear gun, run a few drills with it to see if it is the correct rifle for you to use. Close range off hand snap shooting, rapidly shooting from one knee, and shooting at a moving target coming straight towards you when pulled by a quad or vehicle are all useful drills. Can you acquire your sight picture quickly? Can you get a surprise break on the trigger in a short period of time? I recall that I found Russain triggers to be a challenge, even on a bolt action. Does the rifle function everytime? If you have to work too hard at practical marksmanship with the little rifle, or if the operation of the rifle is hit and miss, I would choose another option. If it works for you, all is good.
 
I ordered a Robinson Arms XCR semi-auto 223 rifle it should be here late Feb and I've already purchased 5 RRA LAR-15 10 round 223 pistol mags for it...

Do you guys think 11 62gr Barnes TSX @ 2950fps would do the job (11 because there would be one in the chamber)... :D
 
If you do have to shoot a bear in your camp ......pack up and leave right away and TELL NO ONE other wise you will be answering questions and filling out paper work for a month...if your lucky
 
Camp Cook said:
You brought up Dixie slugs using them as an example to compare to the 45-70 but there aren't any here so I still do not understand why you are continuing to comment on them
Click to expand...

Because they're one of few companies selling a very heavy hard cast 12g slug for the folks that don't reload their own.

It's a good bone crushing slug for shots under 75 yards.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom