Firearms restrictions being proposed in Alberta.

Morpheus32 said:
Have you actually read my posts? I blame the poachers and unethical "hunters" who are the root of the problem. I also comment that I don't agree with the ABP position. My point remains, if your going to have an argument, offer something to fix the problem. Boycott all you want. If your going to write a letter, push for improved enforcement rather than silly regs.

Son? OK Grandpa..... what the heck was that :)
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You cannot force people to be law abiding. It is the essence of a free country. There is choice and consequence and some are willing to take that risk. No amount of legislation will change that.
 
The main problem lies with the fact that no one is lilly white. Everyone has knowingly or not done something that if a fish cop was watching would have got him in trouble - maybe serious- maybe minor.

A farmer friend of mine had a shotgun stuck in his chest by a pheasant "hunter" and when my friend said hes calling the cops - the reply was "fine - I know where you live and where your cows are - go ahead"

I have had a pro guide tell me and my bud that we were in their line of fire (we were in an open public pasture) and they have advised their clients not to worry about us and shoot away. We watched them cut fences, shoot numerous deer and walk away. We tried to tell someone - but back then it was kinda futile.

We all have those stories im sure. How often have you waited that extra 5 minutes after "legal" light? Man - I cannot believe that we used to be able to hunt AN HOUR after sunset. I can hardly see with 1/2 hour after sunset.

Have you ever shot from a truck? gophers? deer? Crap - last year a fish cop basically told his own deer hunt story with him shooting out the window of a vehicle.

Have you ever got a landowner's tag and filled it on a neighbours property? All I guess is poaching.

It is a tough question - but new rules will not help.

Ethics and enforcement is the only real way short of outright banning. Even with banning tho - poaching just moves underground like in Europe and England with their private game wardens.
 
chuck nelson said:
You cannot force people to be law abiding. It is the essence of a free country. There is choice and consequence and some are willing to take that risk. No amount of legislation will change that.
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Your right, but at the end of the day, all of us are being painted by a few people who have chosen to be unlawful. We complain when a gangster in Toronto is represented as a gun owner by the press. We should also be concerned when the actions of a few who chose to conduct themselves illegally result in a proposal which will effect all gun owners.

As said by farshot, ethic and enforcement are the resolution to the problem, not a silly regulation that the illegal types will ignore anyway.

If we want to defeat this, sending threaten letters to ABP may not have the desired effect. Writing the minister, SRD and ABP, outlining a sensible and logical series of points will have a stronger impact and ideally influence the outcome. A long emotional rant will get dismissed. Threats will harden their position...so how do we resolve the issue?
 
I've done a little checking into the personal life Suntjens one of this resolutions sponsors. He is a hunter. I wonder if he has a guide license? I also wonder how much of his land is posted?
 
Actually when you think about it, the excuse of "road hunting" to propose more restrictions upon the legal hunter is starting to sound, well, a lot more like bulls**t to me.

The ranchers say it's a safty issue, BUT they, themselves, want to be exempt from it. So what's the point of "saftey" if only one group is being hit with more laws than another?

Are Ranchers and the ABP trying to say they've been breaking the law and shooting from the road for so many years, that they have become proffesionals at it, and are now safer to do it than everyone else?

Come on. This whole thing is starting to stink of something else. There's much more trying to take place here than simply further restrictions upon hunters. The whole "road hunting" thing is only an excuse to acieve something else.

So what's really going on here?

Some ABP members who are also an outfitter service want less hunters around so they have more game to sell to the Americans?

Something else, but for sure, all this road hunting bulls**t is not the real reason.
 
scanner said:
Actually when you think about it, the excuse of "road hunting" to propose more restrictions upon the legal hunter is starting to sound, well, a lot more like bulls**t to me.

The ranchers say it's a safty issue, BUT they, themselves, want to be exempt from it. So what's the point of "saftey" if only one group is being hit with more laws than another?

Are Ranchers and the ABP trying to say they've been breaking the law and shooting from the road for so many years, that they have become proffesionals at it, and are now safer to do it than everyone else?

Come on. This whole thing is starting to stink of something else. There's much more trying to take place here than simply further restrictions upon hunters. The whole "road hunting" thing is only an excuse to acieve something else.

So what's really going on here?

Some ABP members who are also an outfitter service want less hunters around so they have more game to sell to the Americans?

Something else, but for sure, all this road hunting bulls**t is not the real reason.
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A conspiracy by some outfitters? Seriously?
 
Come on now - connect the dots....... cows are worth little these days and the price is not expected to surge anytime soon if ever, ......the power base of BPA have lots of land - much of it that tasty free crown stuff - the lands have game on it - the landowners control access to those lands - so if you control every other hunter around your lands (or in reality have the publically paid police or fish cops control) and eventually you "convince" the political power to give the right to "sell" the game on your land for hunting, ....voila .....you have a new cash crop with no input costs. Free money. The fact that normal people are pushed out of their own resource is of no matter.

As I mentioned, I see places that give oyu the right to access lease land as long as you pay - it already is happening. They just need to stop those pesky and dangerous road hunters from picking off the animals that stray from the owned lands.

Remember that abortion called deer ranching? Who paid for all the animals when they were killed off for their disease? Who thought that was a good idea?

As I mentioned before...... it has been done in Africa with stunning results. Landowners there were paying good money and effort to raise cattle that had little cash value. They throw up some fences and sell Kudus and Impala to hunters for $1000, $1500 - whatever the market allows - cash money - thats about 15 times what a cow is worth.

I have a friend there who did just that and he wonders why he ever had cattle!

No there isnt a conspiracy - it is more of a business plan. Wealthy landowners in cahoots with the government to allow poor farmers (remember the family farm smokescreen) to make some "extra money" in these hard times - hmmmmmm - good movie.
 
I would be happy to shoot a farmers cow under a fee-for-access system.
What would be a fair price?

I'd never pay to shoot a game animal.
 
Ok I have not had time to read this whole thread yet, and I'm going to bed before doing so. Here is what I've found out so far. Much of which may or may not be in this thread somewhere.

This was proposed to SRD by the Alberta Beef Producers. It was proposed by Suntjens on the wildlife sub committee and sent in. So far none of the reps for Alberta Beef Producers myself or the Beef Producers I know have talked to have any idea this was passed. So it looks like it may be a pet project of Mr. Suntjens.

This is just a proposal to SRD so far, as much as I do not support the PC's and hope the Wildrose kicks butt next election, I don't think the government has moved on this yet. Thats not to say writing your MLA or Mel Knight and making sure they know how you would feel if they did is a bad thing. However at this point there is no blame I can see to place on the PC's.

Contact the Alberta Beef Producers, they have a website, email their staff and executive or call them. If you are a beef producer in Alberta, contact your rep and make them aware of this, and make sure they know you are unhappy. See if we can't pressure the Alberta Beef Producers to withdraw this proposal, after all I suspect most ranchers would find themselves in violation of this law, not to mention wouldn't be to happy when their gophers and coyotes stop being shot.

So I suggest to everyone to work on a big awareness campaign for anyone at all involved with the Alberta Beef Producers. If you want to right your MLA thats great too, but remember at this moment they haven't done anything bad yet, so express your concerns but don't ream them out yet.

I'll keep you all posted as I start to hear back more from the Alberta Beef Producers, and try to get through this thread completely in the morning.
 
Regarding Crownlands like grazing reserves the ABP have zero say about the public hunting on them come Nov 1st every year. They MUST have ALL their cattle off before then and the gates are opened so tax and fee paying hunters can hunt on "everyone's" land unbothered.

I'll have to read more here but I'm sensing that a group of ranchers and farmers that were born into owning land and big operations want no uncased firearms on "their" roads? They are a bunch of spoiled punks these days that are living off of their parent's and grandparent's hard work. They could never start up a cattle ranch today from nothing, no one can. But if these princesses get their way I for one, will spend my entire 4 weeks I take every November to hunt driving the roads with a video camera at my side. Each and every farmer I see with an uncased rifle will be recorded. It'll still be hunting, just 2 legged instead of 4 legged prey.

Farmers and ranchers as a whole in Alberta get more handouts than even the First Nations. I stopped listening to their well practiced begging after driving up to my home town's coffee shops and can't get a stall to park in because they're all full of crew-cab diesel 4x4's with at least 1 ATV in the box of each one. Yup, hard times being a farmer. Bulls#%t! So go ahead Beef-jerks and piss off a big portion of the meat eating public. I'll eat chicken and pork for the next ten years along with my deer and moose steaks!
 
JasonS said:
Regarding Crownlands like grazing reserves the ABP have zero say about the public hunting on them come Nov 1st every year. They MUST have ALL their cattle off before then and the gates are opened so tax and fee paying hunters can hunt on "everyone's" land unbothered.

I'll have to read more here but I'm sensing that a group of ranchers and farmers that were born into owning land and big operations want no uncased firearms on "their" roads? They are a bunch of spoiled punks these days that are living off of their parent's and grandparent's hard work. They could never start up a cattle ranch today from nothing, no one can. But if these princesses get their way I for one, will spend my entire 4 weeks I take every November to hunt driving the roads with a video camera at my side. Each and every farmer I see with an uncased rifle will be recorded. It'll still be hunting, just 2 legged instead of 4 legged prey.

Farmers and ranchers as a whole in Alberta get more handouts than even the First Nations. I stopped listening to their well practiced begging after driving up to my home town's coffee shops and can't get a stall to park in because they're all full of crew-cab diesel 4x4's with at least 1 ATV in the box of each one. Yup, hard times being a farmer. Bulls#%t! So go ahead Beef-jerks and piss off a big portion of the meat eating public. I'll eat chicken and pork for the next ten years along with my deer and moose steaks!
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Nice rant. I will remind my two relatives how rich they are and spoiled with government handouts. Painting all farmers with a broad brush eh....and you get upset when someone brands all gun owners the same....particularly for the action of some poachers...

Please read the letter from the ABP posted by SCAR below....they are concerned about truck hunters and are putting the proposal forward for discussion...
 
transportationoffirearmsinvehicles.jpg
 
Large numbers of roads will lead to large numbers of road hunters. Alberta has large numbers of roads.

I believe the ABP should lobby to have roads removed.
 
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