Request: lightweight 'survival rifle'.

fat tony said:
If the Sub 2000 had a steel receiver, imo it would make it 2X the gun it is now. I really have to get out with a friend to try his. Sounds like a pretty fun gun.
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Far too much plastic IMHO. The sights, and hinge area are weak points, and in a survival situation who knows what can happen.

I want to know that if I run out of ammo, I can still use my gun for something, be it defensive, structural, or whatever.

I've had bad experiences with a couple plastic guns, and when I saw the sub 2000 and SU 16 I actually laughed. They feel like water guns, not firearms!
 
Agree that I would have interest in this concept, though not in a single shot version.

Any place we can still buy a Papoose?
 
mlehtovaara said:
Kel Tec is all kinds of bad for a survival gun IMHO!

All that plastic, and hinges make for a gun I would not depend on to hold up to anykind of damage.

In a survival situation you may be forced to use that gun for other things, or to whack something, and I would not trust most of the Kel Tec line with such a task.

For me, having had the pleasure of toting my brand new one across the woods the last week, it would hands down be a Ruger 77/357, or if you want the extra power a 77/44.

Weight is just over 5 pounds, synthetic/stainless cobo, and is so short and handy it just can't be beat, except possibly a 16 inch lever. ;)
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i agree i love my ruger 77/44! its got lots of power and its really light!
 
manbearpig said:
Currently the M6 Scout is the only factory rifle that fits this niche, and they are rare/expensive as hell, and do have some inherent issues. Several rifles/shotguns targeted towards the 'survival' crowd are available on the market but, IMHO, many have major drawbacks such as a proliferation of plastic parts, flimsy sights, poor actions, etc.

IMHO for a 'survival' gun the hinge-action is ideal. it is rugged, totally reliable, inherently a takedown action, and is extremely compact: a 14" barreled hinge action would be shorter/lighter than a 10" barreled 10/22.

a sight combo similar to the XS sights rail/ghost ring combo is not offered on any .22LRs, and would be ideal for a gun like this. those who prefer can mount a compact scope or a reflex sight, and due to the hinge-action design the sights/optics would retain zero even after takedown/reassembly, and not suffer from any receiver:barrel play issues like those plaguing shotguns, 10/22s, etc.

the barrel length/stock LOP could be tailored to come in at just over the min. OAL for non-restricted. it would result in a bombproof, compact and accurate 'survival' rifle platform, and also be ideal as a plinker and youth rifle.

i made the concept using a .22 from the Rossi Trifecta package, with a shortened stock LOP and barrel. the sights are XS sights ghost rings. both of these items are easily acquirable if a 'reference' is needed for the design.

just putting this out there as this is my idea of the perfect backpacking/survival rifle, and you can put me down to preorder two of them if you can build them under $400, and im sure they would be very popular with the backpacking crowd. down the road, a short 20ga barrel could also be offered to round out the kit. .22 Hornet could also be a possibility, as could pistol calibers such as .44 mag.

pigrifle.jpg
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I didnt read all the posts but the ones I did read never mentioned the AR-7 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AR-7 it was puposely desinged as a survival rifle..can be broken down and stored in its own stock and floats as well..someone makes goodies for it as well http://ar7.imoutdoorshosting.com/store/index.html hope this helps.Wholesale sports has them listed for under $300.If its good enough for Bond..it's good enough for me..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky4G0O5-u3U
 
fat tony said:
If the Sub 2000 had a steel receiver, imo it would make it 2X the gun it is now. I really have to get out with a friend to try his. Sounds like a pretty fun gun.
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Anyone own one of these? In my eyes right now, the Sub 2000 is looking pretty good. Folding, no parts to lose, 9mm is fairly light, 10 round capacity since it'll take glock mags.

I've only got two questions, how accurate to 75 yards (the maximum I can shoot accuratly without a scope, bad eyes) and how easily could you field strip it?
 
Ratfor said:
Anyone own one of these? In my eyes right now, the Sub 2000 is looking pretty good. Folding, no parts to lose, 9mm is fairly light, 10 round capacity since it'll take glock mags.

I've only got two questions, how accurate to 75 yards (the maximum I can shoot accuratly without a scope, bad eyes) and how easily could you field strip it?
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That is a good question. I would imagine it's probably about a 4moa gun at 100 yards like a lot of other 9mm carbines.
 
Ratfor said:
Anyone own one of these? In my eyes right now, the Sub 2000 is looking pretty good. Folding, no parts to lose, 9mm is fairly light, 10 round capacity since it'll take glock mags.

I've only got two questions, how accurate to 75 yards (the maximum I can shoot accuratly without a scope, bad eyes) and how easily could you field strip it?
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^The earlier incarnation by Kel-tech did had an aluminum receiver. I hear the current owners are loathe to part with them.
 
fat tony said:
You can still buy the Marlins with the HOD - the model is the 725 iirc. Very nice .22. I will pick one up someday (over a stock brand new Ruger 10/22 in a heartbeat).
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Where can I get one? No luck finding them last night in Canadian online sellers that I searched.
 
I'd buy something like the ar7 in a bigger caliber... Make it a bolt action mag fed 45acp that can be broken down into, bolt, reciever/frame, barrel, mags, and stock. Would be cool to see something like this and I'd fit it into my budget somehow!
 
.22 & Survival?

Isn't that what a Henry 'Survival" rifle is for:

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

To me. the purpose would be to take down small game, unless you're carrying it to target shoot. I haven't read the whole board (too long) but at this point, the actual purpose of what it's intended for wasn't mentioned, only ease of carry.

truenorth said it right...what's the purpose? Also, if you're taking a survival .22 out in the backcountry, doesn't it make more sense to be semi-auto for the just in case factor and for quick follow up shots? If there are no dangerous animals where you plan to go (or you have bear spray instead of high power rifle/shotgun) then that seems to be the only time a .22lr makes sense for survival (or no other options available). Henry seems like it is exactly what you're looking for?
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"Probably better to describe what role you want the rifle to fit. can the OP describe 'Survival' ? Is it to kill rabbits if you get lost hiking ? - then take a slingshot (weighs less than a pound). If it's to protect yourself from a bear, these .22's aren't gonna do it unless you stick it in its mouth and shoot through it's lower skull AND get lucky."[/QUOTE]


yes, what are you trying to survive? if it's a food shortage and you're out in the woods to bag a few bunnies then by all means a .22 would be fine, but if you're in the wilderness and there is the very real threat of bear and wolf attacks do you want to trust your life, and perhaps the lives of your wife and kids, to a .22???
now is the .308 starting to look a bit better? and how come no one has suggested a short barrel 12ga pump? fairly compact, and the applications can be varied by carrying a variety of ammo. i don't think too many would argue the stopping ability of a full power slug for bear. for bunnies and birds a load of birdshot would work fine. and what's a Griz go for? $310?

i'm all for a .22 in the collection, but to trust your life to one? no way.
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manbearpig said:
i have many short .308s and 12 gauges, three Grizzlies - ive owned them for many years. the fact that people are still looking for a compact 'backpackable' .22 indicates that there is an obvious niche that has yet to be filled by either of these. there are many places i dont take these guns but where i would happily stuff a light takedown .22 into a backpack.

if you prefer a short .308, or a short 12ga - by all means buy one. CanAm sells the latter, and Ruger and Savage make the former.

id like a lightweight, compact takedown .22 that i can slip into either a frame pack or a day-pack for hiking, backpacking, etc. along with ~50 rnds of ammo. the equivalent in a 12ga would weigh over twice as much and be far more bulky. the point is to have a backpacking gun that is light, compact and unobtrusive: not to have something that takes up half your pack, and therefore gets left at home.

the 10/22 takedown still leaves a lot to be desired, as its basically a full-sized 10/22 that simply splits in half. youre still stuck with the sh*tty Ruger stock, and its 21" long when broken down, over 37" when assembled, has garbage sights and scope mounting on a 10/22 - especially a takedown - has its own issues. a hinge action could be manufactured much smaller, and be potentially far more accurate and robust.
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David K said:
... Not glamorous by any means, but a well placed.22 will take down most animals, in a pinch. Survival=Desperation, then the Rules of Sportsmanship don't apply( think small game, and stalking ). With that in mind, a single shot .22, Cooey, or what ever. Slim the stock down, shorten it if practical. Shorten the Barrel to the minimum, and weld on a new foresight. The bolt that holds the action into the stock can have a set of small wings welded on. And now, it can easily be taken down into two parts, without tools ! Add a set of sling swivels, and you're good to go....... Low cost, and dead reliable. .... David K
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Yes it can kill most things but I wouldnt want to be faceing a pissed of bear with one shot of 22 lr.
 
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