best for Elk at distance 7 mm mag or 300 win mag ?

I'm using a 300 right now, but there isn't a shot I'd take with a 300 that I wouldn't take with a 7mm magnum. Use whatever you like, learn it well, and go have fun. :)
 
Hit anywhere half decent with todays high end bullets that retain 80% + of their original weight no elk will be able to tell the difference at any sane range.........Harold
 
Jordan Smith said:
Show me a .300WM load that will beat the external ballistics of a .625 BC bullet at 3100fps from a 7RM passed a few hundred yards. Better yet, a .794 BC bullet at 2850-2900fps from a 7Mag.

For most people, there is no discernible difference between them in the real world, at all. For the other guys, the .300WM can't beat the 7RM when it comes to the external ballistics that matter.
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As me and Pilot mentioned earlier, to dupe a .625 BC @ 3100 fps a fellows gotta be in RUM mode, with 208 Amaxs and a pop can screwed on his barrel.

With hunting bullets a fellows gotta zing 200 Accubonds in his 300 mag to trump the ass kicking .531 BC 160 grn. 7mm Accubond.
 
1899 said:
With 200gr or 220gr Partitions. That is a mighty fine combo, imo, and those are the bullets I use in .300 Mags.

I've been working up the skills to shooter longer ranges and am experimenting with the 175gr Sierra Game King in the 7mm RM. It has only a slightly lower BC than the VLD type bullets, but I think they will hold together much better, especially at the closer, normal ranges. IIRC the GK actually has a better BC than the MK (according to Litz's testing).
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I always think of the comments of one of our most prolific Guide-Outfitters here in northeastern BC when he stated he would always cringe when a client arrived carrying a 300 Weatherby Magnum or 300 Winchester Magnum. For good reasons...most of them were afraid to shoot and could not hit effectively due to the noise and recoil.

From what I have observed at our local North Peace Rod and Gun range just before opening day, I would tend to agree with him...and not with regard to his clients.
Few hunters shoot enough to be able to demonstrate effective accuracy with these magnums.

For those on forums like this who are obviously doing more shooting than most hunters, and can handle these magnums, that is great, and I have used and have seen how hard they hit an elk at many distances often enough to know they are very effective, especially so at ranges most hunters should not even try. That being said, I have shot an elk a year since 1958 and many other big game animals (grizzly and black bear, caribou, moose, deer etc) annually as well as on the job without any real need for all that extra power. I like a really lightweight custom 30/06 and a similarly weighted 7mm Remington Magnum but also have an extremely effective 7X57. All shoot well under 1MOA and I have never remotely had an issue using them on any big game. Most game was taken from very close to around 250 yards with the odd one out to 400.

The more I hear hunters talk about their need for 300 mags and ultra long, long range big game shots, the more suspect I am that they really don't actually know how to hunt anyway, and hopefully they remain in the minority, as it will be a whole lot better than seeing our game animals depleted by wounding at overly long range shots gone wrong.
 
As for hunting situatioins I think we are triyng to split hair, the difference at 400 yrd among them +-2 " drop .....7mm rem mag, 300 win Mag, 300WSM, .300 Ultramag they are all fine for the job, bullets selection available for reloaders is vary and sophisticated, me personally I only use Hornady and Nosler P with the 7 and the 300, lately I got some Sierra 200 grain and 225 for the ultramag, but no hunting experience with them to date.
I have the four rifles never hunted Elk, but hunt successfully moose and bears with 3 of them ( the ultramag to date kill paper only! ) I never had to take a shoot outside 130 yrds, only my son kill a moose at 425 yrd.
Once I did tested the 7RM 162gr.Hor. over IMR 4350 and the 300WM 190gr.Hor over IMR 4831, both rifles zero at 200 yds, no range in my surraundings over 200yds, so I went late at nite to a sand pit in the outskirt of the town, 375 yrd shoot across, rested over the hood of a truck, engine running KC spot illuminating the paper target 3 rounds with each rifle ( since after that need to leave before some one complain and send visitors...) the results two groups almost identical, 2 triangle with 2.5 to 3" base and 1.5 to 2" heigths, about 3 inch a part from each other.
 
i gotta say , yep loud as all get out
At 400 not a lot of diffrence from my 30/06
It dont kick as hard as my 06..or my 7.62x54r ;-)
But if i hadentgot the bug to try reachingout farther i woulda never paid 565$ for that scope ...300$ off on clearance
Worth every cent of it:D

coulda gone without the brake and had a 26 inch barrel..oh well lol
 
also planning to learn this gun out to about 600 this summer
it wont be cheep , but i dont recall hunting ever being cost efective lol
we know a place with a nice long pit and nobody near to bother
i bet we lay down 600 rounds of surpluss
plus hunting rifle rounds as well ;-)
thats just 1 day ;-)
 
To the OP,

If you should eventually decide to buy a 7 Rem. Mag. I recommend you also get a chronograph with it. My experience with this cartridge suggests that you never know what velocities your gun is producing without a chrony. The 7 mag. seems to be all over the map with regard to loading data. As an example, in order to get 2900 fps with 175 gr. bullets in my 7 mag. I have to go several grains of powder over the max. load the books give for the powder I use.

If I was to use the book max load my rifle would produce velocity way under what the books say.

My .338 Win. mag with a brake is more comfortable to shoot than my unbraked 7 mag.

Just more stuff to mull over.

Jim
 
blwebster said:
.......

The more I hear hunters talk about their need for 300 mags and ultra long, long range big game shots, the more suspect I am that they really don't actually know how to hunt anyway, and hopefully they remain in the minority, as it will be a whole lot better than seeing our game animals depleted by wounding at overly long range shots gone wrong.
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The same can be said about those hunters that try to take big game with a cartridge that is arguably on the light side, such as a 243, or those that attempt longer shoots with a slug gun. There are bad hunters at both ends of the spectrum, those with magnumitis and minimumitis. And really, it's to do with the hunter himself, not the gun he's carrying.
 
I never said anything about shooting game with match bullets, I said match "style".

I wish people could learn to read....

I have shot over 60 moose with 9 different calibers in 13 different rifles, Elk with 6, deer with lord knows how many.... I won't speak of those numbers here for fear of incrimination, lol.... I speak from personal experience... When it comes to LONG range unless you get into casings with 100 grains of powder pushing 200 plus grains out of a .308 the big 7's have the advantage. That's is all I was saying.

However, very very few people need to reach out that far, and most shouldn't. With that being said, use whatever suits the game, the range, and the preference. Sheesh
 
skneub said:
Yea yea...stick with the 30/06 lol

Keep in mind this will also get used on moose and deer at short range.
Thoughts based on your experiance please...3006 is the largest i have ever hunted with.
I have heard and understand a fast bullet is easely deflected off twigs n stuff




Thinking about another cheep savage in plastic....lol
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30/06, 7mm Rem. Not much difference. :) Always worked for me.


Grizz
 
bearkilr said:
Great comparison! :rolleyes:
What happens when you "zing" 165's out of the 300? I'll tell you; it drops less at distance AND it's heavier. How's that for statistics?

At least compare somewhat equal bullet weights.
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Sorry Bear killer I was speaking of the same line of bullets and whether one calibers weights had equal or better BCs. The 165 .308 accubond has a schit BC and gets slapped around silly in the wind even at the short distances I shoot (400 and 450 yards). Thats not to say it cant be a decent long range bullet, but we live in a day and age were we can have our cake and eat it too, and a 160 weight class .284 cal. Bullet is the answer.

Foolish for me to speak out of turn.
 
There are several well-known and trusted people that have used Berger bullets on game at close range, such as John Barsness, John Burns, and others, that have unanimously reported positive results. And not just 2 or 3 close-range kills, either. The bullets supposedly penetrate ~3", whether through bone or muscle or whatever, and then come unglued. No frontal or arse shots, but anything else is fair game.

With the Litz BC value of the new 180gr Berger Hunting Hybrid at .706, it's a force to be reckoned with in the wind at 3000fps from a 7Mag, which plenty of people are getting with the 180gr Bergers.
 
Jordan Smith said:
There are several well-known and trusted people that have used Berger bullets on game at close range, such as John Barsness, John Burns, and others, that have unanimously reported positive results. And not just 2 or 3 close-range kills, either. The bullets supposedly penetrate ~3", whether through bone or muscle or whatever, and then come unglued. No frontal or arse shots, but anything else is fair game.

With the Litz BC value of the new 180gr Berger Hunting Hybrid at .706, it's a force to be reckoned with in the wind at 3000fps from a 7Mag, which plenty of people are getting with the 180gr Bergers.
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On deer sized critters, sure.

But if you are hunting elk or moose or grizzly, I'm not convinced.

Unless your goal is to shoot long range at all times, I'll stick with a better hunting bullet, especially if you are planning to take "regular" hunting shots of under 400 yards. There is no downside to using a TTSX or NAB or Partition or A-Fzrame at 400 or less
 
You're preaching to the choir, my friend ;) I carry my rifles stuffed with a magazine full of TTSX bullets for close encounters out to ~400 yards, with a few A-Max loads in my pocket for LR shots...

But for the sake of conversation, those fellas have shot plenty of elk, and some grizzly and other large game with Berger bullets, which is all accounted for in their opinion of the bullets. John Barsness had reported that the VLD is consistently the quickest killing bullet that he has used in all his bullet testing, with zero bad experiences on various shot angles, and John Burns says that the VLD is the best hunting bullet out there, using it on elk and grizzly, among other game, at various shot angles with complete satisfaction.
 
Jordan Smith said:
With the Litz BC value of the new 180gr Berger Hunting Hybrid at .706, it's a force to be reckoned with in the wind at 3000fps from a 7Mag, which plenty of people are getting with the 180gr Bergers.
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What kind of powder/charge/barrel length/cartridge OAL are folks using? I am playing with IMR 7828 and Sierra GK right now and so far am getting 2800-2900fps out of a 25.5" barrel (over an Oehler 35P). I am going to try H1000 and Ramshot Magnum too.
 
Jordan Smith said:
There are several well-known and trusted people that have used Berger bullets on game at close range, such as John Barsness, John Burns, and others, that have unanimously reported positive results. And not just 2 or 3 close-range kills, either. The bullets supposedly penetrate ~3", whether through bone or muscle or whatever, and then come unglued. No frontal or arse shots, but anything else is fair game.

With the Litz BC value of the new 180gr Berger Hunting Hybrid at .706, it's a force to be reckoned with in the wind at 3000fps from a 7Mag, which plenty of people are getting with the 180gr Bergers.
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John Burns owns a company(Greybull Precision) that assembles customized rifles with Berger as a sponsor, I wouldn't exactly call that trusted. Isn't that also the fellow with the infamous video of the greenhorn teen hunter blasting an elk cow at extreme range?
And I thought Barsness was the "optics guru", or is he a "bullet guru" now? Keith and O'Connor were both well known and trusted, but had polarized opinions. Who was right? Your guess is as good as mine. :)

And evidently you don't trust them either, regardless of what the "experts" say, or you wouldn't load up Barnes for what you consider short range (under400). ;)

I put little value on BC, it's the "be all,end all" of bullets lately. Years ago it was sectional density.
 
Keep in mind that the 7 mmRM case is a tad shorter then the 300WM case. So powder capacity is a bit less. But then again the 7mmRM will be most often loaded with lighter bullet. I've used both and would give the 300WM the nod.
 
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