6.5 Mystic #2 is All Dressed Up with New Pics.

### I AM impressed, gee whiz a P. Eng. WOW!!
In what specialty, structural, electrical, civil , sanitary???
What precisely does that have to do with firearms design? Eugene Stoner, Mikhail Kalishnakov, Hiram Maxim and John Browning all managed to develop pretty good firearms without being P.Engs, none of these fine contributors to the firearms world had more than basic education, some not even finishing school at all.
Why do we not see photos of your work? You claim to be a great gunmaker with an international reputation in accuracy, yet no photos of your work.
Most guys who are truly creative are proud to show what the create.
You offer to post photos of others work, which is a kind offer, if I had photos to post I would appreciate the offer, as I also do not know how to do so.
Mr Wallbanger I believe has very valid points in his post.
Papers on the wall only mean someone filled a desk somewhere for some time, that does not mean they actually are capable of doing skilled work, even in a different trade than the training was for. I have employed many men and women in my business life that were qualified for the positions they had, yet were totally incapable of performing the tasks of the job. Journeymen welders who could not weld, draftsmen who could not draw, even engineers who knew little of use, yet they had diplomas from accredited institutions to include in their CVs.
Rather than coming across as antagonistic as you do, maybe something positive and constructive would be more appreciated by us less knowledgeable gun folks.
KK
 
Very nice rifle......I had a crotch rocket painted that same color back in the day (bought used, sold very used) ;)

Too bad the thread "comes across" as hostile (even if it wasn't intended to be) through all of the good info from ALL THE MEMBERS who had criticism, constructive or otherwise.
 
All i know is i enjoy Jerry's posts and have dealt with him in the past. Excellent guy who has taken time to PM me when i have had questions. In fact used one of my old Stevens for one of his projects.

...........As for ###, i am sure you know your stuff but you are sounding like an elitist snob and an #######. You may have engineering tickets coming out of your arse, but as a dealer and a businessman, how intelligent are you by slitting your throat and sounding like such a prick on a gunboard of all places.:rolleyes:
 
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303Carbine, yes, the 500yds groups is good but not to the full potential of the rifle. Bottom line is that I can't drive as well as this rifle can shoot. Looking for a dead calm day to retest.

From the 200yds testing and as long as vertical stringing doesn't rear its ugly head, I hope to be in the 1 to 1.5" 5 shot range at 500yds. No condition doping, just aiming at the target.

I will also be testing at 300m as it might require a sligthly different load. There is no end to the tweaking. I am hopeful one load does it all but you just will not know until you shoot.

win070, I started building rifles on the Pseries of Enfields. Still have a 300RUM, my 338 Mystic (stock project coming up) and a 308 cast BR rifle. They really are a sturdy action and if you can buy them sporterised (BSA are the best) quite economical to work on.

You can get them shooting 1/2 MOA quite easily with quality barrels. The P14 make an ideal candidate for building a LR magnum cannon as the bolt head is already to single push feed a standard magnum case head and the action is strong enough to support some pretty hefty pipes.

Timney triggers are superb and can be tuned to be very light (mine are under 1lb). The orig lock time is 'relaxed' but does work. They make speedlock kits that also dress up the bolt shroud area.

The Dayton Traister unit w/trigger group is pretty much a drop in from what I hear. The stuff from Numrich requires that you build up the cocking piece if using the Timney. Simple to do but you need access to a TIG then do some fitting. Will work with the orig trigger sear.

I do recommend that you have it magnafluxed just to make sure there are no cracks anywhere. Simple operation at any engine building shop.

Now that the Stevens is readily available and dirt cheap, I have switched to playing with these. You get a better action right out of the box with an ever growing aftermarket. Good luck and post pics when your rig is done.

scottr, you are right. Debate, discuss, but keep personal digs out. However, when personal digs (basically calling you a liar and a technical no mind), the need for dogs to mate with their rifles (bizarre), and dice get added (I usually get sarcasm but this I don't get), I sometimes throw back a rebuttal.

enough and back to the regular programing.

Thanks again for the ongoing support and concensus on my feeling for the style of post being received from ###.

I can say that I have a very broad range of knowledge in a variety of topics with my present love, firearms and precision shooting. This board is an excellent way to share experiences and ideas, plus learn.

Read a post and disagree, that's fine and sometimes constructive. However, to dismiss someones results as 'hogwash' despite the provision of solid and repeated test results simply because it doesn't agree with their view of the world. Well, that's simply ignorance.

To only believe those with acreditation that mimics their own "lofty" achievement, well that is arrogance.

And to judge and dismiss a persons experience and knowledge, cause 'you don't have the necessary jam labels', well I would say that is prejudice.

It is too bad that there seems the need to go for the throat whenever ### wants to start a debate, actually more like a condemnation. I have always found that you win debates by providing accurate and plausible rebuttals in a way that is not perceived as a personal afront.

Seems most of you believe that is the prefered way to chat on this board too.

I am glad.

Let's leave the finger pointing, desk slamming, in your face shouting matches to American talk shows.

Jerry
 
Just to let everyone know I have shot with Jerry. I have learned a great deal from him. One thing this post has over looked is Jerry can Shoot. Put him behind any rifle and watch. I am sure there are many guys in this forum that are killer shots. Jerry is one that I can say I know. I have seen it on paper. His latest project works. Its nice to have someone share knowledge rather then hide it or profit from it. So I stand as a witness to the capabilitys of this rifle.
 
Many of us are still waiting on the photos of the 0s Jerry. Funny how you have time to post other pictures and intentionally chose not to post the support information for your claims (grouping in the 0s)…do these groups even exist…let alone the aggs! Glad I was able to quote some of the BS you write. You find time to post mediocre groups but no time to post the "claimed" 0s and your followers chose to ignore the obvious. Silly me I guess I know why.

Perhaps one day you will be honest with yourself and come clean. There is hope out there. It is interesting to see that you chose not to elaborate on your technical expertise.....among other things. Jerry life is too short, but keep posting the BS. If we have time, we can hopefully work on the mess. Its too bad other people stopped posting on your threads.....perhaps they are better judges of character then I since I still have hope for you. I wish they would post since we are losing valuable input.

Keep'em small Jerry....God only knows how you can make them smaller then 0s but I'm confident you will find a way....

Wallbanger, (and we have some history) if you look at the posts the request was made to present information, I.E. credentials so they were given. Apparently you disagree. WHY????

Then of course the next level or action is that a person is falsely labeled for doing so. Paperwork does provide and will always provide proof of ability by a standard accepted by society..or perhaps a chosen few or team if you may. I wouldn't try to judge you on your tags or the possible lack of them....lets discuss the subject that’s good enough for me. If only the bellyachers could stick to the technical aspects, but that wouldn't be any fun.....

Some people just chose to ignore the fact that there are varying levels or degrees of expertise! That is in all discussions this one being no different. I am somewhat knowledgeable, but do not consider myself an expert. Compared to some I might be... Now with respect to the discussion on rifles (barrels, blocks etc.) if I a wrong, please feel free to point it out and lets discuss it. Honestly, blanket unfounded statements have little value and tend to speak volumes of the person making them. We are here to talk on the subject of rifles...bang away...... Hey if the men of the world feel that I am arrogant or an elitist, fill your boots....it really is worth a laugh or two.
 
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### International said:
Many of us are still waiting on the photos of the 0s Jerry. Funny how you have time to post other pictures and intentionally chose not to post the support information for your claims (grouping in the 0s)…do these groups even exist…let alone the aggs! Glad I was able to quote some of the BS you write. You find time to post mediocre groups but no time to post the "claimed" 0s and your followers chose to ignore the obvious. Silly me I guess I know why.

Perhaps one day you will be honest with yourself and come clean. There is hope out there. It is interesting to see that you chose not to elaborate on your technical expertise.....among other things. Jerry life is too short, but keep posting the BS. If we have time, we can hopefully work on the mess. Its too bad other people stopped posting on your threads.....perhaps they are better judges of character then I since I still have hope for you. I wish they would post since we are losing valuable input.

Keep'em small Jerry....God only knows how you can make them smaller then 0s but I'm confident you will find a way....
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes: I don't think your winning hearts and minds Joe. But guess you really don't care. Why not start your own thread and everyone that is interested can debate with you there. Show us some pics of your rifles and work along with your groupings from your personal projects. Give us a rundown on your personal testing and what works for you.
 
Long Range Canuck said:
But guess you really don't care.
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You are absolutely correct, I do not give a RAT'S ASS.......
 
Thanks for the updates mystic. It's to bad your thread was filled up by the ego of some people who although "may be" an engineer..certainly lack people skills.
Of to add ### International to my list of businesses not to deal with.
 
Joe, sometimes people like you amaze me! What's going on here is the same type of bull#### that you had with the gunsmith currently known as ***. Why can't you just drop this type of #### and move on? I've bought from you before but no more....
 
agilent_one said:
Kinda sums it all up, no?
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Absolutely with the brillance displayed by some posters why would I or anyone else. Life is way too short...:)
 
###, did you ever take the time to look at my second post on the first page? I posted a target of my initial testing at 200yds. Yes, that is two zero zero yds. There are two loads that put bullets into the same hole. Less then 2mm apart - that is in the 0's.

I would post a bunch more targets but what is the use. You didn't believe me on page one of this post. You aren't going to believe me now that you have your nuts really in a knot. Four pages of slinging insults at the rest of us. That has got to be a record.

I have been trying to understand why this post has gotten you so riled up (how many more times do others have to say, 'give it a rest'???). I figure you must be a pretty decent guy (you have customer{s} and others in the US that are willing to shoot with you, at least they did once), smart (as you have told use many times), at least enough to get into the same group that gave us the Fast Cat Ferry and other feats of engineering marvel.

You are licensed in three provinces as a P.Eng of unknown discipline yet decided to define yourself as a dealer/business in this small and unfortunately, fading hobby and spend a lot of time slinging mud at everyone you can.

My goodness. With the amount of 'engineering' going on in BC and Alta, how could anyone so endowed with knowledge have time to grace us with their insults. I mean, isn't taking so much time away from a truly lucrative 6 figure a year job to try flogging $75 SAVAGE bolt handles a little silly????

Day job not working out????? Man, the consulting fees and retainers alone would be staggering.

I can only guess that despite having the best (you wouldn't use anything but), assembled by the best (you of course) and shot by the best (you and only those you associate with in a far away land), you don't get these types of groups very often (you have mentioned this in a previous post).

So, someone, whom has not been accepted into your inner circle, posts that he (unwashed and of low breeding - at the very least inadequate education) has achieved such success with equipment YOU KNOW is unworthy, it must be lies, damn lies, a whole pack of lies.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Someone that has a pinky ring really couldn't be that ignorant.

There is little point in offering my 'credentials' and experience. You wouldn't, no couldn't, believe me so I will just save my fingers the work.

Whatever image you have of me and my biography, does me no harm. Have at it.

I would have figured that with all your years of schooling and of course, professional experience, you would have come across at least one situation where results did not agree with your accepted norms. Pity that was so quickly dismissed and an opportunity lost to learn another thing about this wonderful world.

You are the man. You know, you feel it, you believe it. I respect that a man can be passionate about his convictions. Just don't start believing it will lead to eternal life and blow yourself up, at least not in Tacoma.

Reread my posts and you will see that I have provided all the info and details you seek. I mean really read them, not glance over, get pissed off and start spewing out your arse.

I wish you well. Hopefully, conditions at a shoot or your range will be such that you too can feel the joy of driving them under 0.200" at 200yds, even if its just for a couple of shots.

Thanks for trying to show us the path and the errors we have made along the way, in shooting and in life. Sorry, but I will continue down my path to assured destruction and live in the fantasy I have posted and will post about.

In my world, I post what I have done openly and without spin. Those who know me, have shot with me, have blogged with me know I speak of what I know. Events I post have occured whether you believe them or not.

'Nuf said. I want to get back to what this post is all about. Telling you lies about my shooting and rifle of ill repute. Oh by the way, ###, since you hate what I am saying so much, there is a little button you can push to exit this thread and never need to see what we are chatting about.

Might be the best for us all...

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
###, did you ever take the time to look at my second post on the first page? I posted a target of my initial testing at 200yds. Yes, that is two zero zero yds. There are two loads that put bullets into the same hole. Less then 2mm apart - that is in the 0's.
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Well lets see....perhaps here in lies another problem. You don't seem to want to understand what a group or an agg is. Why I am not sure. Gerry do yourself and everyone who has some thought process remaining a favor. Go out and fire 5 groups, each group being made up of 5 shots (not 1 or 2 or 3, but 5). Stick with me and just try it this once. I know 3 shots are common but this once, just step out of the box and do 5. Shoot the 5 shots in 7 minutes, hell use 10 or 15min. Do this once at 100 and then once at 200 yards. Measure the extreme spread of each group, average the 5 and report back the results. This will tell us how good you are and how good your gun is. Just ask the experienced local BR shooters - Jefferson (a fellow poster .....shooting extremely well these days) for one will tell how common it is to be shooting 0s.

To help you out, after you have tried that, reduce your group size from 5 to 3 shots and let us know the resuts. Sound fair...?

As far as Tacoma goes, I suggested Tacoma earlier simply because it is a super place to shoot. Fairly close and you have the chance to do some real life comparisions. If you are lucky you can even talk with Tom Dixon or Bruce Thom... maybe Glenn Harrison or Mike Allen from the old Nesika. I am sure they would love to meet you and your ideas. Come to think of it, it might not be possible because I doubt you and your rifle could enter the USA.


mysticplayer said:
I would post a bunch more targets but what is the use. You didn't believe me on page one of this post. You aren't going to believe me now that you have your nuts really in a knot.
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Jerry, clearly you do not understand the concept of a group as adopted by short range BR shooters. Have you ever fired a 5 shot group? Nuts in a knot....what on earth are you on about now...:confused:


mysticplayer said:
I have been trying to understand why this post has gotten you so riled up (how many more times do others have to say, 'give it a rest'???). I figure you must be a pretty decent guy (you have customer{s} and others in the US that are willing to shoot with you, at least they did once), smart (as you have told use many times), at least enough to get into the same group that gave us the Fast Cat Ferry and other feats of engineering marvel.
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In short, oh my GOD! You have to like that.


mysticplayer said:
You are licensed in three provinces as a P.Eng of unknown discipline yet decided to define yourself as a dealer/business in this small and unfortunately, fading hobby and spend a lot of time slinging mud at everyone you can.
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Jerry - get it right eh.. go back and read the post. Next thing your going to say is that I was a Prime Minister or next in line for the Pope's chair!:D See what I mean you can't even get that right. What you are saying is wrong. Slinging mud? Every activity has its riches and its loses....why would this sport or activity be any different. Shooters on as a whole are decent people and the sport has a very high percentage of honest people. I can honestly say only the real gems who add little to value to the sport get such frustrated responses over the past few days. Interesting to see that the common threads of some of these gems.


mysticplayer said:
My goodness. With the amount of 'engineering' going on in BC and Alta, how could anyone so endowed with knowledge have time to grace us with their insults. I mean, isn't taking so much time away from a truly lucrative 6 figure a year job to try flogging $75 SAVAGE bolt handles a little silly????
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Jerry you need a mentor so here I am....kidding of course. Like our banned (apparently unwilling to support this board financially so his chronies can keep posting) Southern Alberta tombstone turner, I try to clean up the inaccuracies generated by the mentally challenged.

We all know money isn't everything.......Now seriously, I have a deep love for the sport. Why else would a person put up with guys like you? You seem like a decent guy at times, but you really have a hard time grasping fundamental concepts....which isn't to much of an issue as long as you recognize the problem. When you do, you will be a bit more open.


mysticplayer said:
Day job not working out????? Man, the consulting fees and retainers alone would be staggering.
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Tell us what we should expect? Well Jerry we are still waiting to hear what you do or did or didn't do, I.E. I seem to recall you posting about your engineering/technical experience and not following up with what you really meant or have.....kinda like your group in the 0s....I guess.we will never see it. Perhaps when cows fly.



mysticplayer said:
So, someone, whom has not been accepted into your inner circle, posts that he (unwashed and of low breeding - at the very least inadequate education) has achieved such success with equipment YOU KNOW is unworthy, it must be lies, damn lies, a whole pack of lies.
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Let me guess you were not using proper breathing protection ( a proper mask - not a halloween one) when you painted that purple stock ....right???....shameful..more tax dollars to be wasted on treating.....

Seriously, I think part of the problem is the internet is too impersonal. I'm really just an average guy who likes this sport. Sure I have my off days like others and at times my light is on but no one home...but on the most part....I'm just like anyone else...same body functions etc...

I still waiting to hear good smart things from knockknock, prosper..... I'm sure if they really wanted to know more they could be experts like you too. Maybe like Tubb and Browning...



mysticplayer said:
Whatever image you have of me and my biography, does me no harm. Have at it.
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Jerry news flash...I am not the only one....you can be assured that my email has been working overtime. People are surprised similar to you that I am even wasting more time on you ....... but I do have faith Jerry....one day....hopefully before we all perish...you will come around. Others wouldn't waste a second and thats too bad really. Seems your only following is on this board.. but hell thats second hand news...


mysticplayer said:
You are the man. I respect that a man can be passionate about his convictions.
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Jerry please, I am blushing.....



mysticplayer said:
I wish you well. Hopefully, conditions at a shoot or your range will be such that you too can feel the joy of driving them under 0.200" at 200yds, even if its just for a couple of shots.
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Thanks Jerry. I wish you well too. BTW, I haven't been shooting as much as I would like to, but I can honestly say that my first impression of shooting an official match winning small group (technical term - SCREAMER) @ 200 yds
wasn't one of wow thats awesome!

Only after the boys from Nesika said I should save the target and frame it....did it really impact on me. I didn't think a 0.195" 5 shot group was that good, but it was....much to my surprise. When you start looking at groups you quickly realize ya, that was a good group....and ya it will be hard to repeat one of that size.... but not impossible...

Perhaps one day you too can shoot a group of 5 or an agg of 5 groups and have someone say...damn that's good and yeah it is in the 0s. Unfortunately my friend from what I am seeing .... it will be a long hard road. But given your drive...at least from your efforts... it is very possible.


mysticplayer said:
Sorry, but I will continue down my path to assured destruction and live in the fantasy I have posted and will post about.
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I think this is where I should be jumping in and......no you've got a few years under your belt.....you'll do just fine.

mysticplayer said:
Events I post have occured whether you believe them or not.
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Jerry I don't think you intentially act this way. In time with patience you will learn... I think your stubborn side has the better of you.... most of us I guess.

mysticplayer said:
Nuf said. I want to get back to what this post is all about. Telling you lies about my shooting Might be the best for us all...

Jerry
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I'll say it again. Keep a good eye on Bill Leeper and GUNTECH's posts. These two gentlemen know their stuff and if you open your eye's....you might even see that I rarely if ever disagree! There are others but you my friend....you are special.
 
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Alright already. I live in Alberta and am just getting into "more than plinking and occasional hunting" with my rifles...and so far all stock long guns as well (the TRG22 is my baby) and holy crap thread jacker.

I am building a custom rifle next spring and guess who got crossed off the list??? I guess It makes my decision on a builder that much easier after hearing the way you publicly and intentionally came off as a complete asshat. I really can't believe a businessman like you (with your reputation) has the audacity to act like a 13 year old A.D.D. kid in front of many potential customers. Unreal. Nothing personal of course, it is the internet, but I guess I'll mention what an CU!T you were to the maybe 30 guys I know in my industry who are avid shooters and hunters.....and let me assure you, Alberta and 'the patch' is a small place to be a known as a prick, no matter how good you are at your job.

You may well have many good points, but your attitude says more to me than your knowledge or skill.
 
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Gee all this nasty talk.Its like when Demented and me are fighting about homo's in off topics.It is alot easier to act like a jerk when you fight on the internet. I have dealt with Jerry and he is a good guy and I always thought ### was. If you two had been sitting together at the range I don't think this arguement would have happened. You guys are better than this.
 
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