90gr Berger VLD and the 223 - 500m Group 1 1/16"X 1/8" see post 357

Been a while but I have an update to add.

About to receive my first batch of JLK 90gr VLD's. They come with a solid reputation and are certainly pricey enough. Will do some testing with existing combos in my current match barrel and post results.

mpwolf, Summerland is around 2500ft so not that high up.

More testing to come...

Jerry
 
Been a while but I have an update to add.

About to receive my first batch of JLK 90gr VLD's. They come with a solid reputation and are certainly pricey enough. Will do some testing with existing combos in my current match barrel and post results.

mpwolf, Summerland is around 2500ft so not that high up.

More testing to come...

Jerry

Jerry
I was able to get some 90gr JLK to try 200 bullets I have checked the ogive on these bullets (50) and the most they where out was half a thousand. I was stunned, no more sorting of Bergers that I have seen out .25000, I have to jam the bergers a little to much as my gun will not shoot well with a jump, with the JLKs you can seat them just kissing less pressure this way. I am going to try some this Sat if winds are not to wild. Sure hope you will be stocking JLKS if they work.
manitou
 
Weighing them was also very positive with tolerance almost 0.15gr over a decent sample size.

Now to shoot them and see what happens.

Been very windy.... hoping for calmer air before it freezes again.

Jerry
 
A bit chilly this morning but the winds finally slowed down to a gentle breeze.

200yds groups with 2 Shilen Savage FTR's. 1 barrel with 1500rds. 2nd brand new. Different seating depths (just how the 2 seaters were set up). Both showed a load that was 1/2" or better so that is very promising.

Hopefully, the weather will hold for more groups to confirm, at least at 200yds, the accuracy potential.

From an appearance standpoint, the tips look even without alot of ragged edges. Meplat also looks even.

The boattail looks interesting cause there was definitely a step that pressed them firmly. Usually, the angles on the boattail are gentle and curved. These have quite 'sharp' or defined bends. In fact, it looks almost a bit rabetted.

Comparing to the Berger VLD's and BT's, the shape is right in the middle. If these were Bergers, I would call them HYBRIDs.

So the bullets look well manf. Weighing them shows very small variance. Initial tests have been positive.

Now the down side. Coming from a small boutique manf, supply is best described as intermittent and patience is definitely needed. I would love to say that I can stock them but I expect demand to quickly eat up supply.

For those that want to shoot JLK's, the best practise would be to stock up and order well ahead. Any bullet is only produced a few times a year and demand can cause production to be sold out quickly.

No extra bullets are produced by the manf.

Also, no fancy boxes or lables here. All bulked packed. Yes, they will arrive in ziplock bags.

On the rare batch, the bullets might have small dents caused by the lube in the forming die. I have been assured that this does not affect accuracy but it doesn't look as good as one would like.

So the reason to shoot these is the improved consistency which can lead to smaller groups at distance. They will cost more, be more difficult to source and not come with any fanfare.

But if my scores improve, that is all I care about.... Get some pics up asap.

Jerry
 
Finally tried out the 90 vld's today (briefly)

Savage with shilen 1/8 twist at 26", chamber is .223 AI with .050 freebore.

Win cases, cci 450's, and varget, bullets jammed .010"

Just started out mild (keep in mind this is an ackley chamber), loaded up 24, 24.5, and 25 gr. Three rounds of each charge.

Shot at 200 yds, first load 6" group, second 5" and the third a little more respectable at 2". (I'm no expert, but so far I have gotten consistent 1/2 moa at 200 yds with other loads in this rifle)

Not sure what to think, may just need lots of load tuning for this fussier bullet, or maybee the 8 twist won't quite do it. My elevation here is around 1000' and temp was 10 degrees C. Did seem to get better with more fps though. I just got some lapua brass in so I'm going to step up the loads a little and try Rl 15 too.. just maybee...

I have a hankering for a hot rod .22 like 22-250 AI or 22X47 Lapua, in order to push the 90's around 3200. Such performance with such low recoil would be a dream. The question is, 7 twist or 7.5? Can the bullets take 3200 fps in 1/7 without blowing up?
 
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Yeah, 7 twist would be a world better for sure.. Do the berger 90 bt's require less twist to stabilize than the vld? I'm guessing they are a little shorter?
 
Yeah, 7 twist would be a world better for sure.. Do the berger 90 bt's require less twist to stabilize than the vld? I'm guessing they are a little shorter?

Have seen a 90gr Berger Match shoot in a a 1/7.8 Kreiger and very well, but same barrel would not shoot the 90gr VLD the VLD has a shorter bearing surface, Note" pressure signs with the 90Gr Match you must load lighter than the vld 90gr Bergers
manitou
 
Finally tried out the 90 vld's today (briefly)

Savage with shilen 1/8 twist at 26", chamber is .223 AI with .050 freebore.

@flyinlead your observations have just shown that your 1-8" twist barrel is *almost* quick enough (in fact in summertime with ~20C air, it probably will be quick enough).

So, a 1-7.8" or 1-7.7" twist barrel will be adequate for your .223AI or for any other cartridge that gives higher speeds. No need to go to 7.5" or 7" (though for a .223 there's nothing wrong with either). If I were building a souped-up-to-the-max big .22 centrefire, I would avoid the unnecessarily-quick 7" twist (because you might start blowing up bullets after you have 500 or 1000 rounds down the bore and it starts to rough up the bullet a bit more than when it was brand new).
 
Here is some testing I just did/confirmed using the new 22cal 90gr JLK VLD's. New barrel too. Conditions were great with near dead cold air.

IMG_4823.jpg


Here are the confirmation groups. Conditions weren't that great but I caught a lull in the air to shoot the A load again. Cold bore was still right in the group which is a positive indicator of a quality load. Drilling the next 3 into the same hole was all I needed to see to prove the bullet and load works. All testing at 200yds

IMG_4822.jpg


Overall, the impression is that the bullets are going where you expect. Load tuning has been straightforward and no more difficult then any other VLD type bullet. Groups have been pretty consistent at 200yds with 1/4 min potential.

Of course long term testing will prove the consistency of the bullet but first impressions have been solid.

If the snow doesn't fall, will test at 500m. Should shoot well...

Jerry
 
[youtube]TgqzCcZkcrM[/youtube]

Did some testing at 500m and got some very nice results. Here is a clip sped up of the final group (I am glad as real time is painfully slow). The group forms in the middle of the lower page. Not sure what happened with the 5th shots. Conditions were gusty and maybe the wind just stopped or reversed. You can see the flashes of the flag moving around.

I am aiming at the same aiming point and not paying attention to the flags.

The other loads also shot well with one fitting inside a 2"X2" box and the other inside a 1 3/4" X 1 1/4" block when the called flyer is removed.

I will hope for another day with no snow and light/no winds to test one final time but I am really liking what I see.

Certainly no disadvantage to the Bergers. Elevation is easy to hold very tight and the bullet bucks the wind very well.

Enjoy...

Jerry
 
looks promissing Jerry what kind of powder & speeds?
I was able to try 10 rounds with two different powders both under 1/2" at 100y with 90gr JLK hope you will be able to get them in early Dec been to cold here to do anymore testing
manitou
 
The 90gr match shot in friends 1/7.8 twist Kreiger but the 90gr VLDS did not, I watched him shoot 4 bullets in .340" at 300yards 5th went out to .740"
With the 90gr match you have to load lighter min 1/2 gr powders less, the bearing surface is much longer than the VLD 90gr
manitou
 
looks promissing Jerry what kind of powder & speeds?
I was able to try 10 rounds with two different powders both under 1/2" at 100y with 90gr JLK hope you will be able to get them in early Dec been to cold here to do anymore testing
manitou

IMR4007 has been working well for me. the last time I chronied, I was around 2800fps so happy with that speed.

haven't gone out shooting as the cold and ice/snow make access dangerous.

Hopefully, it will all melt in a couple of months and I can finalize my loads

Looking forward to testing at 1000yds.

Jerry
 
So I just got my hands on some Berger 90 gr VLDs that I've been quite looking forward to shooting with the 1/7 Shillen. I just finished doing the old "use a cleaning rod to determin the max OAL with the bullet against the lands" technique with three different bullets. The results were: 2.498", 2.497", 2.497". From what I've read in the thread is that the OALs are looking like they reach into the 2.6+" range.

Am I going to be able to make this work or will I need to pay a gunsmith to lengthen the throat (I think that's the term I'm looking for). If so how much is this going to cost?
 
Use Varget and you will be fine. It will fit and still give decent velocity - around 2700 to 2750fps.

Until you want to push the 90's as hard as possible, the longer throat will not do much for you.

Back out shooting and the loads are working very nicely. If I can figure out the wind, sub MOA at 940yds is the norm (smacking rocks). Given the drift values, I am feeling that I will be right there with the 308's at LR.

Vertical has been minimal and zero seems to be stable - within the vageries that are day to day weather.

If I can do my part, the rig will keep them in the 5 ring and V's for sure.
Jerry
 
So this is my first attempt with the 90gr VLDs and I don't think I'm off to a great start yet. Massive group size for 200 meters! Trimmed once fired Winchester brass, CCI BR4s, Varget, and seated to jump .004". Fired out of a Savage with a 1/7" twist topped with a Sightron SIII 6-24x50.

This is my first time using those black stickers as targets and I worried that I wouldn't have a consistent point of aim. This could be the case but I doubt it would be the only problem. I had some 75gr AMAXs give me under .5MOA just minutes before I fired the VLDs. I tried to let the barrel cool down after 75 shots fired. The barrel was still a little hot to the touch when I fired these groups.

Any suggestions?

One thing that I noticed is that there's more recoil firing the 90s compared to 75s and 80s.

DE32DA0C.jpg
 
Start with a cold barrel. 75rds is a bit much to be shooting in a row without cooling.

give it a clean too. Then start again. Watch the winds and take your time.

Maybe fatigue is entering the equation.

Jerry

PS seems case lengths were a bit long. I like to trim back to 1.745" for my Shilen barrels. I feel they are cut a bit short.
 
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