9mm PCC of choice for ultimate reliability and battle type use.

GerardSamija said:
Not trying to poop on the X95, just wondering - isn't it a significant disadvantage in terms of the 'battle type use' part of this question that this model is restricted to 5-round magazines? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding and it's legal to use some type of 10-rounder? While 10 is scarcely 'military' insofar as capacity goes, it's a heck of a lot more than 5, so on this criterion alone it would seem to scratch the $2,000 X95 off the list. Unless of course one were thinking of un-pinning a 32-round magazine, but nobody does that here.
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X95 accepts the ASC LAR-15 9mm 10rd pistol mags, in fact mine came with one instead a 5-rounder!
 
Reading about the Ruger PCC it sounds about as reliable as you can get. Takes Glock 17 & 19 mags...plus it breaks down into two pieces, 3 lb trigger, ghost ring sights, threaded barrel, adjustable stock, can swap mag release and charging handle to either side.
 
GerardSamija said:
Seems poor trigger feel is a fairly common issue among various PCC models, though I understand the Ruger's isn't too bad. My TNW ASR had about a 6.5lb creepy pull, very uneven if not quite gritty feeling. I filed down the rounded part over which the sear trips by about 1/3 to lighten the release and polished the heck out of everything engaging with anything else to reduce friction, dropping it to below 5lbs with a fairly crisp feel to it after a smooth 1/4" of travel. A little elbow grease goes a long way with mechanical things. Polished the sliding parts in the action as well - the bolt carrier and buffer weight and the spring ends. I'd seen folks complaining about the difficulty in drawing back the bolt, one Canadian video reviewer being especially disturbed by this, but even before polishing it really wasn't very challenging. After some cleaning up it feels smooth and sounds quieter. Oh right, some lithium grease on the spring helped with the noise.

In general it surprises me when I see all the little complaints about various PCC models having issues. These things are basically dirt cheap, considering they're being made by workers getting paid in US Dollars. It's obvious that corners are being cut everywhere to get them out the door at saleable pricing. Some degree of end user willingness to do a bit of refining see implied. Heck, I have rarely bought anything in the last 40 years that I didn't modify in one or more ways. Manufacturing is like that. Expecting a gun out of the box for less than $2,000, or especially under $1,000, to work like a Swiss watch, well, that's just a bit silly. Learn to tinker with these things. Polish your extractor face so it grabs brass a little easier. Polish the chamber after rounding the feed ramp edges to prevent bullets from getting caught up and assure easy extraction. Check your crowns for defects and polish them to perfection if they aren't already perfect (which they aren't from the factory, ever). Let's be realistic about these things. They're simple machines, made on a budget, and one should expect less than perfect performance until they're coaxed into their ideal state with some TLC. And it's not like there aren't YouTube tutorials on all this stuff!
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Ummm or u can just buy a PCC that isnt sh!t.... like the CX4.... the EVO.... the Kriss Vector.... the Ruger PC.... the JRC.... etc.

Owners modifying and tinkering on their guns to make them better is understandable and normal.

Owners modifying and tinkering on their guns to make them function reliably is NOT.
 
Desertrat said:
I'm looking for a PCC in 9mm that is very reliable and that you can get spare parts for (sorry H&K). Something along the lines of your most trusted 1911, Glock, or AR15 but in a PCC.

I'd like to hear what you guys have that you would recommend, based on experience of using them. And what pluses/minuses you would give them based on mag(Glock, Beretta etc being a plus) ease of procurement, how easy to get spare parts, Ambi friendly and anything else that you consider about them.

I'm not concerned about restricted vs non-restricted.

I have owned a couple different ones but ended up selling them for various reasons.
Beretta CX4
BRS-99

I'm looking for some real world experience with them, not so much Internet armchair general speculation based off the latest video game.
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I do like my Ruger PCC, but for 'battle type use' simulation games, I prefer AR15 style and ergos. My PWS PCC 9.5 inch has been 100% reliable for the first 4,000 rounds and I feel pretty confident with it. I also had a loaner FX9 which I put 2,000 round through without a hiccup (it had about 3,000 before I got it).

My Thureon Defense 9mm Carbine was never reliable, even after years of shooting and fiddling. I was very happy to upgrade to the PWS and Ruger.
 
Murray 3-D said:
Ummm or u can just buy a PCC that isnt sh!t.... like the CX4.... the EVO.... the Kriss Vector.... the Ruger PC.... the JRC.... etc.

Owners modifying and tinkering on their guns to make them better is understandable and normal.

Owners modifying and tinkering on their guns to make them function reliably is NOT.
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Any modifying and tinkering I've done with my Aero has been to make it suit me. Reliable function has not been an issue. Apparently for the first couple of years they didn't get the feed ramp and buffer spring quite right, causing a lot of reputational damage due to owner frustration. Pretty trivial stuff really, easily remedied with a bit of understanding and work within a short while. I've read reports of problems with all models of PCC. None are without issues as model lines, even the CX4. Of course if confirmation bias comes into play the actual statistics don't matter to any individual... but keeping an eye on complaint threads makes it obvious for anyone paying attention.
 
GerardSamija said:
Apparently for the first couple of years they didn't get the feed ramp and buffer spring quite right, causing a lot of reputational damage due to owner frustration. Pretty trivial stuff really, easily remedied with a bit of understanding and work within a short while.
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And how would u know that ?? U just stated that YOUR ASR was reliable from the factory. Basically implying that u urself havent owned an unreliable ASR and actually had to fix one ?

If it was a simple solution. TNW wouldnt have told me that I was SOL over email. If it was a simple solution TNW wouldnt have provided Hickok45 with a defective one for his demo lol. If it was a simple solution, the problem would be completely non existent with their gen 2 addition....

After 5+ years of being a un happy ASR owner, i can tell people what the true solution to a defective ASR is... sell it and go buy a more reputable PCC like the Ruger for more or less the SAME amount of money!
 
So after 5 years owning a TNW ASR, you haven't modified the feed ramp(s) to remove the sharp edges and polish the faces to a proper mirror finish? I've read of a number of owners of earlier Aeros who have done just that, fixing feeding problems. Ejection problems have generally been remedied by changing spring tension, or in some cases reducing spring length a half-coil at a time until FTE stop happening for a given ammunition type. I haven't suggested at all that the Aero is a perfect gun, but the depth of your obvious bitterness seems a touch excessive considering the relative ease with which such issues can be resolved.
 
GerardSamija said:
So after 5 years owning a TNW ASR, you haven't modified the feed ramp(s) to remove the sharp edges and polish the faces to a proper mirror finish? I've read of a number of owners of earlier Aeros who have done just that, fixing feeding problems. Ejection problems have generally been remedied by changing spring tension, or in some cases reducing spring length a half-coil at a time until FTE stop happening for a given ammunition type. I haven't suggested at all that the Aero is a perfect gun, but the depth of your obvious bitterness seems a touch excessive considering the relative ease with which such issues can be resolved.
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You should forward your tips and tricks to TNW.... :)
Maybe they will make a series of video showing their customers how to work on the guns to get them to run reliably. They have many videos already but one they really should add to the list is a step by step of all the changes they have made to the ASR over the years to try and improve it. There are so many generations with slight tweaks that it's hard to address them all as a general group. Some run great some not so much which is frustrating.

There are out of the box, reliable PCC's on the market so it's not like that is a far fetched notion.
 
Can-down said:
You should forward your tips and tricks to TNW.... :)
Maybe they will make a series of video showing their customers how to work on the guns to get them to run reliably. They have many videos already but one they really should add to the list is a step by step of all the changes they have made to the ASR over the years to try and improve it. There are so many generations with slight tweaks that it's hard to address them all as a general group. Some run great some not so much which is frustrating.

There are out of the box, reliable PCC's on the market so it's not like that is a far fetched notion.
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If you look at my first post in this thread, you'll note that my one attempt at contacting TNW has resulted (still) in no reply. Add to that the impression from their videos that it's basically a skateboard factory which happens to make firearms instead of skateboards (ie; a bunch of young dufus types with the owner seemingly vague, nervous, and not himself terribly technically adept), and one isn't left with a very good impression. I doubt they'd make any use at all of end user tips on upgrading functionality.

As for some running great, others not so much... as I've mentioned in a different thread, it's about exactly as easy to find videos where end users describe, often rather bitterly, their bad experiences with the JR Carbine for example, or the KelTec Sub2000. These guns have distinct weak points, places which could use some tweaking, some upgrading, or outright replacement of parts to get them working right. But I certainly understand the frustrations when a TNW product (or any other) doesn't work properly out of the box. A lot of folks expect to just unpack, assemble, shoot, never thinking about gunsmithing work along the way, maybe run a rag over it once in a while, a few drops of oil perhaps...

Again, I've just never really encountered a product like that. Even basic kitchenwares often need tweaking to get things working right. Knives with crappy edges, pots with weak handles, a coffee grinder with a flakey timer, an espresso machine costing $800 which almost immediately needs a homemade thermometer to time drawing a shot as the thermocouple fails and the company doesn't offer warranty support outside of Spain... it goes on and on. Stuff generally isn't well made. I found my Aero to be mostly ready to play with out of the box, but I refined it here and there, polishing everything that should be polished but wasn't because they're selling them for $800 Canadian dollars, which is basically pocket money. If I paid $2,000+ I'd be upset with rough machined finishes. At $800 I'm not complaining. My $2,000 Pardini air pistol needed precisely zero work, it just shot well, always has. I made a grip for it because no factory grip fitted my hand properly but that's not Pardini's fault. As the price goes up, I expect the factories to do better work, that's all. Discount prices equal sloppy finishing.
 
I have a AR in 9mm using 10rd Colt-pattern 9mm pistol magazines. It's been very reliable and I can wholeheartedly recommend the platform.

The best part is that I can use the 10rd RRA LAR-15 pistol mags in it. For me, this was a big concern as I really didn't want a platform which was limited to 5rd mags such as the CZ Scorpion Evo and Sig MPX.

I hope this helps.
 
GerardSamija said:
If you look at my first post in this thread, you'll note that my one attempt at contacting TNW has resulted (still) in no reply. Add to that the impression from their videos that it's basically a skateboard factory which happens to make firearms instead of skateboards (ie; a bunch of young dufus types with the owner seemingly vague, nervous, and not himself terribly technically adept), and one isn't left with a very good impression. I doubt they'd make any use at all of end user tips on upgrading functionality.

As for some running great, others not so much... as I've mentioned in a different thread, it's about exactly as easy to find videos where end users describe, often rather bitterly, their bad experiences with the JR Carbine for example, or the KelTec Sub2000. These guns have distinct weak points, places which could use some tweaking, some upgrading, or outright replacement of parts to get them working right. But I certainly understand the frustrations when a TNW product (or any other) doesn't work properly out of the box. A lot of folks expect to just unpack, assemble, shoot, never thinking about gunsmithing work along the way, maybe run a rag over it once in a while, a few drops of oil perhaps...

Again, I've just never really encountered a product like that. Even basic kitchenwares often need tweaking to get things working right. Knives with crappy edges, pots with weak handles, a coffee grinder with a flakey timer, an espresso machine costing $800 which almost immediately needs a homemade thermometer to time drawing a shot as the thermocouple fails and the company doesn't offer warranty support outside of Spain... it goes on and on. Stuff generally isn't well made. I found my Aero to be mostly ready to play with out of the box, but I refined it here and there, polishing everything that should be polished but wasn't because they're selling them for $800 Canadian dollars, which is basically pocket money. If I paid $2,000+ I'd be upset with rough machined finishes. At $800 I'm not complaining. My $2,000 Pardini air pistol needed precisely zero work, it just shot well, always has. I made a grip for it because no factory grip fitted my hand properly but that's not Pardini's fault. As the price goes up, I expect the factories to do better work, that's all. Discount prices equal sloppy finishing.
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Jaime who handles their office is a bit out to lunch and not the best communicator but they always seem to answer the phone and make time for conversations and some suggestions but at some point they seem to be happy with a general.... huh? and not much else. They are pretty good at sending out parts to try and in that regard I can't really give them an F. More like a solid C grade..... just enough to sort of get by nothing more nothing less.

I hear what your saying about tweaking and polishing but at some point these guys should have their blow back design dialed in to handle typical loads reliably.... at this point it's still a gun that may need end user tweaks and could be a bit of a "project".
 
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