Maccabee Defense SLR information and updates

[tiriaq]

OK, the lower and upper slide together. The screw keeps the pieces in place - prevents sliding. Doesn't sound as if there is much stress on it.
Does it thread into the upper? Are the threads in the lower, and a dowel peg engages the upper?
Wouldn't mind seeing a photo or two.
I have lots of guns held together with screws. Without problems. Just having a hard time understanding why this screw is a horror.

 

[Kjm1971]

We clamour for an actual AR15 derivative that is NR, they offer one, we wail and gnash that we only want stripped receiver sets, so they offer them, we moan and gripe about getting our name on the list, so a couple of respected dealers work a deal and offer pre-sale with a tentative timeline, so we circle back and complain that the design is not exactly an AR. Canadians are a funny group.

 

[fluidmax]

I actually just cancelled my preorder due to the bolt thing eating away at me. They confirmed on Instagram they wouldn't be changing it for the first run but will look into for the future, so I figure I'll just wait. I don't want to buy a half assed receiver set for top dollar. I can wait to get what I want. Meanwhile I'll keep collecting parts as they go on sale.

Same here....saw the bolt thing and decided not to get in on it. A few of my buddies didn't know about it and are now thinking of cancelling theor pre order too. We waited this long for a NR AR.....makes sense a little longer won't hurt.

 

[RobertBarrie]

I’m staying on the preorder in hopes the production model is different. Well see in a few months.

 

[mopar guy]

How does anything they've done so far translate into bad business?

They've been open from the beginning that this is still in the pre-production developmental stage. They have made it clear that a few changes may be made before the final production model is decided on.

They have decided to offer us stripped receivers FIRST. Something no other manufacturers have given us. AND they only charged a miniscule amount of money to secure a pre-order. They didn't start taking full price up front like required to pre-order another NR rifle (BCL).

They could have soaked us full price for completed rifles first and made us wait for receiver sets. But instead they listened and offered what we asked for.

In other words they aren't reaching into our pockets to fund their R&D and manufacturing.

They are listening to us and giving us what we have been asking for.

PLEASE EXPLAIN WHAT'S BAD BUSINESS ABOUT THIS?

As I explicitly stated, taking money towards a product that is still being prototyped and has no production plan feels like bad business to me. Not as bad as BCL/NEA by any means, but also not as good as manufacturers that thoroughly test their products and finalize their plans before going to market.

THEY ARE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT GEN 2 REVISIONS ON INSTAGRAM!!!

They need to slow down. I can wait another 6 months or a year, we all can, no one is dying without a NR AR15 style rifle.

More often than not we all get used to fund R&D as you mentioned, or to beta test products. That's not right, that is bad business.

You can't put a horn on a turd and call it a unicorn. And because our laws are senseless in Canada we are all so eager to eat unicorn flavored turds simply because they are better than the alternative. And ANY criticism gets you banned off the board as a hater.

Now I am NOT saying that the SLR is a turd, even though that is all half of the readers will take from this post.

I am thrilled that they undertook this venture and am looking forward to building one. They have my support and money 100%, as long as they don't burn us.

All I am saying is if they are taking money they should have their ducks in a row, and we don't know if they do because there is zero reliable information on this product.

But hell, what do I know. Trump got into the White House with Twitter posts, so I guess maybe Instagram beats an old fashioned web page and spec sheet.

 

[jiffx2781]

OK, the lower and upper slide together. The screw keeps the pieces in place - prevents sliding. Doesn't sound as if there is much stress on it.

Agreed. There "should" be very little stress on the bolt. It "should" be a non-issue.

Does it thread into the upper? Are the threads in the lower, and a dowel peg engages the upper?
Wouldn't mind seeing a photo or two.

Yup. A picture says a thousand words. And relieves a ton of speculation. I think some pics are due.

I have lots of guns held together with screws. Without problems. Just having a hard time understanding why this screw is a horror.

I only see it as a concern. If there is ample material where the screw goes through or threads into making it strong enough to withstand NORMAL use from assembly/disassembly and vibrations caused by shooting, than it is a non-issue. If it is done properly it is only going to be a horror to those who can't use it properly.

 

[Jon.]

I think the issue is it's not an AR and the rest are just being fussy.

2 bolts hold the action in every bolt action rifle out there, bolts hold lots of things together. What is it, 4 bolts hold your engine into your truck? I'm sure this will be fine, and it's a lot of over reacting, complaining because it's not everything we've hoped and dreamed for in a NR AR type receiver.

 

[HirvGotti]

I think the issue is it's not an AR and the rest are just being fussy.

2 bolts hold the action in every bolt action rifle out there, bolts hold lots of things together. What is it, 4 bolts hold your engine into your truck? I'm sure this will be fine, and it's a lot of over reacting, complaining because it's not everything we've hoped and dreamed for in a NR AR type receiver.

It's constructive criticism. Bolt guns don't need their bolts removed to remove their bolts .... whew that's a lot of bolts in a sentence. It just doesn't make sense in this design, especially for those who want to run multiple uppers. I support this company, the price and the whole shebang.

 

[mopar guy]

I think the issue is it's not an AR and the rest are just being fussy.

2 bolts hold the action in every bolt action rifle out there, bolts hold lots of things together. What is it, 4 bolts hold your engine into your truck? I'm sure this will be fine, and it's a lot of over reacting, complaining because it's not everything we've hoped and dreamed for in a NR AR type receiver.

We're talking about a tiny screw, not bolts.

4mm screws hold scope rings together and strip out very easily.

It may not be a huge issue but who knows, we don't even have pictures. However, I'm positive the use of tiny screws on any application other than "set and forget" is a weak link, no pun intended.

 

[Gatehouse]

I would like to see video of takedown/assembly to determine if the screw is a big deal or not. Personally, I'm leaning towards not being concerned much at all. For me personally, I'm not going to be taking this rifle apart all the time. No more than any of my other hunting rifles, and that's not often.

 

[RobertBarrie]

It's constructive criticism. Bolt guns don't need their bolts removed to remove their bolts .... whew that's a lot of bolts in a sentence. It just doesn't make sense in this design, especially for those who want to run multiple uppers. I support this company, the price and the whole shebang.

Exactly, its not about can the screw do it. Its about needing a tool to get the BCG out.

 

[Brian46]

I meant,what would happen if the takedown bolt,came completely out,while shooting.
On the Macabee,

What happens on an xcr when it comes out completely? Locktite is not a viable fix for a rifle that was marketed because of its caliber change ability.

I would have to lay hands on a maccabee to know what role the bolt plays into the assembly and what effects it's complete removal and then firing would have

 

[no-one special]

that is my hope as well, it’s not too late for minor changes.

The concern here is is that until they have a "production" rifle or upper/lower to submit for final approval all they have is essentially vapor ware.
Taking orders for a product that only has a child entry FRT could go terribly wrong. I am not saying that they only have a child FRT as I do not have live FRT access so am only speculating. Maybe someone like epoxy who seems to have access can straighten out whether or not it is a final FRT or not. It would be nice to know. With the threads being full of "revisions and changes" will be made, makes me think it is still only in the design and alpha testing state. I hope I am wrong.

 

[no-one special]

I meant,what would happen if the takedown bolt,came completely out,while shooting.
On the Macabee,

Can't say on the SLR but know from experience with the XCR that when the barrel retainingbolt falls out, the barrel, bolt, and most most of the upper heads in the same direction as you are shooting. Mine landed about 15 fett downrange. I sold it forthwith.

 

[jiffx2781]

The concern here is is that until they have a "production" rifle or upper/lower to submit for final approval all they have is essentially vapor ware.
Taking orders for a product that only has a child entry FRT could go terribly wrong. I am not saying that they only have a child FRT as I do not have live FRT access so am only speculating. Maybe someone like epoxy who seems to have access can straighten out whether or not it is a final FRT or not. It would be nice to know. With the threads being full of "revisions and changes" will be made, makes me think it is still only in the design and alpha testing state. I hope I am wrong.

I don't think that you are. With all this talk about "prototype" etc... it seems as though a submission of the final production sample still needs to happen.

 

[Xero]

I don't think that you are. With all this talk about "prototype" etc... it seems as though a submission of the final production sample still needs to happen.

AFAIK, once an FRT has been issued for something, minor variations don't require a whole new verification or submission. Could be wrong, I'm not super familiar with the FRT process.

 

[jiffx2781]

AFAIK, once an FRT has been issued for something, minor variations don't require a whole new verification or submission. Could be wrong, I'm not super familiar with the FRT process.

Ask ATRS if they had to submit a final production sample for the MH. Sure slowed their plans down.

The RCMP can indeed ask for submission of a final sample to make sure it hasn't varied significantly from the initial submission.

 

[emerson]

I'm a sceptic, but its my guess is this rifle will be ok. Probably a yr before end users have a complete rifle to buy. Price is $2500 on manufacturers web site now, I expect that could slide up a few $100. The bolt thing will be minor, or changed and slow down production a few months. People are having second thoughts because they are looking at the cost and schedule and realizing nothing is as perfect as the manufacturer hopes on the first try. At the $2500 to $3K price there are options. Add match barrels etc, hello ATRS prices with a "frankengun" that only the owner belives is worth what it cost. Those who have multiple ARs and parts already spread around their shop are a very small market. Same as those who buy an engine short block to build a motor. TV Reno shows aside, there are not thousands of talented amateur "builders" out there, especially in Canada.

 

[Daver_II]

The concern here is is that until they have a "production" rifle or upper/lower to submit for final approval all they have is essentially vapor ware.
Taking orders for a product that only has a PARENT entry FRT could go terribly wrong. I am not saying that they only have a child FRT as I do not have live FRT access so am only speculating. Maybe someone like epoxy who seems to have access can straighten out whether or not it is a final FRT or not. It would be nice to know. With the threads being full of "revisions and changes" will be made, makes me think it is still only in the design and alpha testing state. I hope I am wrong.

They have a Parent FRT entry.... much more valuable as minor changes = NR "child" FRT numbers.

 

[no-one special]

They have a Parent FRT entry.... much more valuable as minor changes = NR "child" FRT numbers.

Can you please explain how it works, as I really don't know. I have heard of child FRTs which I assumed to be the beginning of the process but not the parent. Some actual clarity of the system would be great.