The next obsolete cartridge...
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the next obsolite cartridge
>303 carabine: How long did it take you to understand that a 303 ain't a 30.06
well I hope you are a little quicker understanding, that the short stubby wsm can blow away a 30.06 in every way, speed, energy,trajectory, and will shoot a lot smaller groups, and a lot lighter gun. you might be okay with the 30.06 when you use 200gr+ bullets and I am a old fart that has a .303 and a 30.06 and a tac driving short stubby 7mm wsm.
303carbine said:Hopefully the next obsolete cartridge will be something in the WSM line, sooner or later the "noobies" will realize that the 30-06 is king and will be around after their pet super duper short mag has bit the dust.The 270 Win, .308. Win, 30-06 Springfield, 7mm mag, .338 Win mag, 30-30 Win, .243 Win. 7x57 Mauser and the 8x57 Mauser will be here taking game when the WSM is nothing but a faded memory in some old farts brain.
>303 carabine: How long did it take you to understand that a 303 ain't a 30.06
well I hope you are a little quicker understanding, that the short stubby wsm can blow away a 30.06 in every way, speed, energy,trajectory, and will shoot a lot smaller groups, and a lot lighter gun. you might be okay with the 30.06 when you use 200gr+ bullets and I am a old fart that has a .303 and a 30.06 and a tac driving short stubby 7mm wsm.
ROTFLMAO...I'm here to helpjoe-nwt said:
You can have both with the same horsepower, but the old flathead(30-06) is IMHO a POS. Leaky tempremental, like Maddog for example
, where as the 427(308) is more refined, and productive, like...well I guess me.Like with the 303 Brit the 30-06 will regretfully never die. There are just too many guns out there for it, but the 308 does everything it can do, with less. hence the 308 wins.
Well, aren't you a little ray of sunshine, Dosing, busily jerking peoples chains once again.Dosing said:ROTFLMAO...I'm here to help
You can have both with the same horsepower, but the old flathead(30-06) is IMHO a POS. Leaky tempremental, like Maddog for example
Like with the 303 Brit the 30-06 will regretfully never die. There are just too many guns out there for it, but the 308 does everything it can do, with less. hence the 308 wins.
I hope that's your tongue firmly planted in your cheek I can see.
I'm gonna leave the inaccurate V8 comparisons to you.
Meanwhile tell me how the .308 moves a 220gn bullet at the same MV as a .30-06 does?
Or a 165gn or 150gn for that matter?
If we're going to get down to brass tacks here the .308 was a FAILED attempt to produce a military round that would be practically as powerful as the .30-06, be lighter to carry, feed better in an auto and have lighter recoil.
It was the inflexible insistence of the US Military against all other evidence that saw it adopted only to have their own soldiers suffer.
Since the only thing it actually achieved was to feed better and it's now over 50 years old it's more like a flat head(to make an accurate comparison) and I might add there's nothing wrong with flatheads.
Hey, it works well on lots of game but more powerful or capable than the 30-06 it aint.
If fact mostly, it's less.
BTW, to clear up any misapprehensions, I actually hate both 30-06 and 308.
Bring on the mighty .303!!
Dosing said:ROTFLMAO...I'm here to help
You can have both with the same horsepower, but the old flathead(30-06) is IMHO a POS. Leaky tempremental, like Maddog for example
Like with the 303 Brit the 30-06 will regretfully never die. There are just too many guns out there for it, but the 308 does everything it can do, with less. hence the 308 wins.
I think a better comparison would be a 308 (.040 over 302
) Vs a 30-06 (351 Windsor) (stick with me here, Im going somewhere)Technically, they're both small blocks, engines and cartridges.
Most of the parts are interchangable, but the block height's are different thus creating more cylinder capacity in the 351/30-06. The 302/308 has some advantages in RPM over the 351, but the 351 will build more power, but they can be very very close. There is no replacement for displacement351/30-06, But combustion chamber and intake technology, camming and such(308's shorter powder column) Make these 2 close. The 351/30-06 will allways win,in terms of Velocity/ Horsepower, but they can both get the job done equally and just as fast...
Neither will ever die IMHO Unless we start shooting Frikken lazerbeams.
kombi1976 said:Meanwhile tell me how the .308 moves a 220gn bullet at the same MV as a .30-06 does?
a 220Gr...in a 30-06 OK, listen GRAMPS
, the days of a 220 in 30-06 are dead and gone, like Fatty Arbuckle. Join us in the days of talkies I did once have an old timer ask me if I carried 308 in 220gr...I nearly died laughing. You wanna push a 220 30 cal down a barrel, get a 300Win Mag.
The 30-06 is wasteful, the 308 basically does everything the 30-06 can with less, and looks better doing it.
You know, that old guy wanted those 220s in a 308 for whitetails...that I know, but I just can't figure out what someone would want anything over 180grs in a 30-06 for, without just accepting the reality that the 300 mags are better at that.
The 06 suffers from the same old problem. The 308 is better, the 300s perform better, it is obsolete in its function as the others meet it, or exceed it.
I like the engine comparisons, they are pretty handy.
Mind you, I could be wrong, but I'm not
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
The day that I have to worry about choosing the best cartridge between the
'06, the .303 and the 308, is the day I give itr up!
To say that one is any better than the other at average , ethical hunting distance is nothing but argumentative.
I have killed many aniomals with all three at varying distyancess, missed a few at the same with all three and NEVER ONCE bl;ame the lack of ballistic capabilities on any of them.
They're all good, and all work so well that they are boring!
Also, I don't think you will see the demise of ay f them in the near OR distant future.....
Cat
'06, the .303 and the 308, is the day I give itr up!
To say that one is any better than the other at average , ethical hunting distance is nothing but argumentative.
I have killed many aniomals with all three at varying distyancess, missed a few at the same with all three and NEVER ONCE bl;ame the lack of ballistic capabilities on any of them.
They're all good, and all work so well that they are boring!
Also, I don't think you will see the demise of ay f them in the near OR distant future.....
Cat
BigUglyMan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Scotland
WSSMs are going to go bye bye.
Then the RUMs.
Then the 260 (sorry Todd, but that's life).
Then the RUMs.
Then the 260 (sorry Todd, but that's life).
How about we put my quote in context......
The lighter bullet weights do kinda change the validity of your dwelling on the 220gn, not that it really makes a difference mind you.
And if we were comparing the 30-06 to the 300 Win Mag, which is undoubtably more powerful, the .308 would fall even more short.
So let's not stray from the point, if we're trying to make a reasonable point......which you haven't.
What's that word?
Starts with T R O........nope, on the tip of my tongue though!
Happy to address the first part but not the second, eh?kombi1976 said:
The lighter bullet weights do kinda change the validity of your dwelling on the 220gn, not that it really makes a difference mind you.
And if we were comparing the 30-06 to the 300 Win Mag, which is undoubtably more powerful, the .308 would fall even more short.
So let's not stray from the point, if we're trying to make a reasonable point......which you haven't.
Dosing said:Mind you, I could be wrong, but I'm not
joe-nwt said:Guess again.
We haven't........Dosing said:
What's that word?
Starts with T R O........nope, on the tip of my tongue though!
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You are absolutely right Cat! All this arguing is just like pissing into the wind. Of the three cartrdges, I have only hunted with the 308--which I am a fan of. But I have seen animals taken with all three, all were just as dead as the next, and all three wouldn't/couldn't tell the difference with what killed them. I would not hesitate to hunt with any of them, however, I would love to see a modern rifle chambered for the 303, I am just not crazy about the milsurps, I know they work, and I will never look down at anyone using one, I just prefer a modern rifle.
Indeed, but debate is dead in this day and age. I mean who debates any more? let alone philosophise. I suppose a discussion on the merits of the 30-03 vs the 30-06 wouldn't seem pertinent to most folks either....and yet, 270 vs 30-06 is an endless saga with so many. Why? when the 308 trumps them both...LOL
Once again, if we were only dealing wiht factory loads the 30-06 is obsolete.
The .308, as loaded by the factory, is loaded to higher pressures than the 30-06.
The newer bullets negate the need for heavier bullets. A 165gr X bullet form a .308 will probably penetrate deeper than a 220 gr cup and core bullet form a 30-06.
The factory loaded 308 and 3006 are so close in performance, none woudl ever be able to measure the difference on game/distance shots. You WILL notice a difference in trajectory wiht a 300. Therefore the 30-06 is obsolete.
The .308, as loaded by the factory, is loaded to higher pressures than the 30-06.
The newer bullets negate the need for heavier bullets. A 165gr X bullet form a .308 will probably penetrate deeper than a 220 gr cup and core bullet form a 30-06.
The factory loaded 308 and 3006 are so close in performance, none woudl ever be able to measure the difference on game/distance shots. You WILL notice a difference in trajectory wiht a 300. Therefore the 30-06 is obsolete.
