The next obsolete cartridge...

Obsolete ob·so·lete (bs-lt, bs-lt) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

No longer in use: an obsolete word.
Outmoded in design, style, or construction: an obsolete locomotive.
Biology Vestigial or imperfectly developed, especially in comparison with other individuals or related species; not clearly marked or seen; indistinct. Used of an organ or other part of an animal or plant.
TRANSITIVE VERB:
ob·so·let·ed , ob·so·let·ing , ob·so·letes
To cause to become obsolete.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY:
Latin obsoltus, past participle of obsolscere, to fall into disuse ; see obsolescent

OTHER FORMS:
obso·letely (Adverb), obso·leteness (Noun), obso·letism (Noun)

Your gonna have a hard time making this one stick Gate !
Cheers
BD:)
 
BwanaDave said:
Obsolete ob·so·lete (bs-lt, bs-lt) KEY

ADJECTIVE:

No longer in use: an obsolete word.
Outmoded in design, style, or construction: an obsolete locomotive.
Biology Vestigial or imperfectly developed, especially in comparison with other individuals or related species; not clearly marked or seen; indistinct. Used of an organ or other part of an animal or plant.
)

Your gonna have a hard time making this one stick Gate !
Cheers
BD:)
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There you go...;)
 
todbartell said:
so, Gatehouse, why did you buy your Stevens 200 in 30-06? :D Surely a 308 would do the same job, even when handloaded.
​
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Good question, idiot.

I actually thougth about that...But I went with the 30-06 for these reaosns:

I handload, so I can actually take advantageof the added capacity

I already had RCBS 30-06 dies

I have hundreds of 30-06 cases

Other peopel have discussed rebarrleing or something on the inexpensive action, and I felt if I was to ever do that, I'd want a 35 Whelen or something like that...

Plus this is a truck gun. What is a more suitable cartridge for an ordinary boring truck gun than a boring 30-06?:D
 
savagefan said:
What a stupid question.
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and

savagefan said:
Bull#### is as bull#### does Forest Gump (Director's cut).
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Why bother typing this stuff? :rolleyes:

When I said "obsolete", I kind of meant no longer chambered in new rifles and very difficult to get factory ammo (or factory ammo no longer made). Like the .300 H&H magnum; I don't think anyone makes it any more. Or the .308 Norma Magnum. Those two have been replaced by the "better" .300 Win Mag and .300 Wby. Will the same thing happen to the latter two due to the introduction of the .300 WSM? I don't think so, but that is the line of thought that I was trying to get at.
 
Gatehouse said:
Plus this is a truck gun. What is a more suitable cartridge for an ordinary boring truck gun than a boring 30-06?:D
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Gatehouse, I can see a kind of logic in your reasoning but if it must spend it's life in a boring truck why not spice up the truck with an interesting gun?:confused:
Besides, isn't a spear-gun more your style!:p :D
 
I guess we will have to ask the animals that have been killed with .308's and
.30-06's to find out which calibers dropped them, and their friends better.....
 
Gatehouse said:
Good question, idiot.

I actually thougth about that...But I went with the 30-06 for these reaosns:

I handload, so I can actually take advantageof the added capacity

I already had RCBS 30-06 dies

I have hundreds of 30-06 cases

Other peopel have discussed rebarrleing or something on the inexpensive action, and I felt if I was to ever do that, I'd want a 35 Whelen or something like that...

Plus this is a truck gun. What is a more suitable cartridge for an ordinary boring truck gun than a boring 30-06?:D
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Best truck cartridge...for sure along with a bubba 303

Now I just finished reading Craig Boddington and his report on the 325wsm...

he says it may be the best Short mag of the lot..OK my biggest gun is a 7mm.mag so why buy a 338 wm as opposed to the 325wsm.. rule out lack of components ..assume I'll stock up for 10 yrs.

someone here said the 358 was an improvement over the 348...heresy!!! the 348 will never become obsolete .
 
DarrylDB said:
I think a better comparison would be a 308 (.040 over 302:D ) Vs a 30-06 (351 Windsor)..... The 302/308 has some advantages in RPM over the 351,
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I note you're not talking 351 Cleveland... LOL

But I digress...


We really have the usual arguent about a little of this or a little of that.

They all kill. Hell, the 30-30 kills deer dead. Like Raid with bugs. Dead is dead.

And guns is funs.

(I've been drinking, but a 302 has nothing on a 351C.)
 
Silverado said:
I note you're not talking 351 Cleveland... LOL

But I digress...


We really have the usual arguent about a little of this or a little of that.

They all kill. Hell, the 30-30 kills deer dead. Like Raid with bugs. Dead is dead.

And guns is funs.

(I've been drinking, but a 302 has nothing on a 351C.)
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besides nuthin beats cu in" 308 is more effecient but hey I dont pic based on effiency!!
 
You guys touting the old school 351 Windsor and Clevland have got to realize that the roller cam 302 H.O. is a far superior engine than either of the larger small blocks! Combined with a good set of heads, intake and EEC-IV and the "little" guy beats down the others AND maintains driveability. Now I like that little Ford small-block, but I have to admit that the General's LS1, LS2, LS6 and LS7 are the Shiz when it comes to domestic V-8 powerplants.
 
303carbine said:
Hopefully the next obsolete cartridge will be something in the WSM line, sooner or later the "noobies" will realize that the 30-06 is king and will be around after their pet super duper short mag has bit the dust.:p The 270 Win, .308. Win, 30-06 Springfield, 7mm mag, .338 Win mag, 30-30 Win, .243 Win. 7x57 Mauser and the 8x57 Mauser will be here taking game when the WSM is nothing but a faded memory in some old farts brain.:eek:
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Man I could'nt say it better! And all of these are my pet cartriges except for
.338win mag, and .308win
But dont forget about the 303brit it will probably outlive us
 
1899 said:
You guys touting the old school 351 Windsor and Clevland have got to realize that the roller cam 302 H.O. is a far superior engine than either of the larger small blocks! Combined with a good set of heads, intake and EEC-IV and the "little" guy beats down the others AND maintains driveability. Now I like that little Ford small-block, but I have to admit that the General's LS1, LS2, LS6 and LS7 are the Shiz when it comes to domestic V-8 powerplants.
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Take a balanced and blueprinted 351C, (which was the easiest of the Fords to balance, next maybe to a 289 side oiler) and add the heads and manifold, and you're in the same arguement.

Good RPM, Good HP, Better Torque.

Kinda like a pressured up 30-06...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899
You guys touting the old school 351 Windsor and Clevland have got to realize that the roller cam 302 H.O. is a far superior engine than either of the larger small blocks! Combined with a good set of heads, intake and EEC-IV and the "little" guy beats down the others AND maintains driveability. Now I like that little Ford small-block, but I have to admit that the General's LS1, LS2, LS6 and LS7 are the Shiz when it comes to domestic V-8 powerplants.


Silverado said:
Take a balanced and blueprinted 351C, (which was the easiest of the Fords to balance, next maybe to a 289 side oiler) and add the heads and manifold, and you're in the same arguement.

Good RPM, Good HP, Better Torque.

Kinda like a pressured up 30-06...
Click to expand...

Need i school both you boys?:D The only shortfall the 351W has over the 302W is the mains. There is an easy way of alleviating the high RPM oiling problem. The clevland is a dinosaur, and had plenty of shotrfalls. It was a torque beast, but in order to make power out of em, you have to spin em.
Cleveland blocks dont like RPM for a few reasons... I personally think the boss 302 motors were a bad Idea...
Ford would have made more power out of a larger port on the 66 289 heads than the boss cars with cleveland heads. There is such thing as too much intake and exaust port... The M's were torque monsters but are as efficient as a flathead:eek:. They were good at drinking gas...

You can get a little over 350CI out of a BOSS 302 block, but can get 435CI out of a 351 windsor. And for FI'ing the 351, there are a whack of intakes available...
A 377Windsor can be put together for peanuts with OEM parts. Add a set of ported Old street heats, twisted wedge or Dart aluminum heads, an Offy, or Victor Jr intake matched with a square bore 830 with 4 corner Idle, and a big solid cam. this will make more power than a blown 347
Now dont get me started on the LS1-6 cars...
They're the Short mags of the bunch, and make GOBS of power, but the fords (especially now) still kill em bang for the buck.
I can buld a 400 HP 302 for the same price as a set of headers and Ypipe for a 98 Camaro...
Now what this has to do with guns I cant remember:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :D :D
My head hurts...
My Mustang in highschool went 13.01@ 116MPH on radials. And used dinosaur technology in an 81 turned 89 hatch to do it. Stock 86 302 short with ported 87 heads, bigger valves, 1;60 rockers, a performer RPM intake and a squarebore 750. With a Crower .496/520 shaft.
 
I drive a truck, a Chev.
When I go out in the morning I turn the key and it goes.
it has enouigh torque to pull my boat . haul stuff, and enough leg room for the kid.
It's four wheels and a box, kinda like a No.4 cut down and sporterized, it works!
Cat
 
DarrylDB said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1899
You guys touting the old school 351 Windsor and Clevland have got to realize that the roller cam 302 H.O. is a far superior engine than either of the larger small blocks! Combined with a good set of heads, intake and EEC-IV and the "little" guy beats down the others AND maintains driveability. Now I like that little Ford small-block, but I have to admit that the General's LS1, LS2, LS6 and LS7 are the Shiz when it comes to domestic V-8 powerplants.




Need i school both you boys?:D The only shortfall the 351W has over the 302W is the mains. There is an easy way of alleviating the high RPM oiling problem. The clevland is a dinosaur, and had plenty of shotrfalls. It was a torque beast, but in order to make power out of em, you have to spin em.
Cleveland blocks dont like RPM for a few reasons... I personally think the boss 302 motors were a bad Idea...
Ford would have made more power out of a larger port on the 66 289 heads than the boss cars with cleveland heads. There is such thing as too much intake and exaust port... The M's were torque monsters but are as efficient as a flathead:eek:. They were good at drinking gas...

You can get a little over 350CI out of a BOSS 302 block, but can get 435CI out of a 351 windsor. And for FI'ing the 351, there are a whack of intakes available...
A 377Windsor can be put together for peanuts with OEM parts. Add a set of ported Old street heats, twisted wedge or Dart aluminum heads, an Offy, or Victor Jr intake matched with a square bore 830 with 4 corner Idle, and a big solid cam. this will make more power than a blown 347
Now dont get me started on the LS1-6 cars...
They're the Short mags of the bunch, and make GOBS of power, but the fords (especially now) still kill em bang for the buck.
I can buld a 400 HP 302 for the same price as a set of headers and Ypipe for a 98 Camaro...
Now what this has to do with guns I cant remember:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :D :D
My head hurts...
My Mustang in highschool went 13.01@ 116MPH on radials. And used dinosaur technology in an 81 turned 89 hatch to do it. Stock 86 302 short with ported 87 heads, bigger valves, 1;60 rockers, a performer RPM intake and a squarebore 750. With a Crower .496/520 shaft.
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My '93 ragtop went mid 12's @119 on radials...and it was a *gag* AOD *gag*. Mild Crower cam, Gt-40 heads, 1 1/2" shorties, Cobra intake, and 8.5psi of boost @ 6000rpm. Also had a shift kit and B&M 2200rpm stall T.C. My friend had the same set-up, except he used a Vortec vs. my Paxton, and he had a GT-40 intake instead of my cleaned up Cobra. He had a 5spd coupe and on slicks ran low 11.20's @ 124, which isn't half shabby.

Victor Jr with an 830 carb and a solid cam? That may as well be track only, and there is no way on earth you will make more power than a similarly (track set up) equiped blown 306". Skip the crap with the useless (IMHO) 347". A Novi 2000 with Twisted Wedge R heads and the right cam + exhaust with a stout bottom end and you'd need two of your 377 Windsors...one driving the front wheels and one driving the rear set to keep up!:p

Uhh...I like guns too. Is it a hijack if I do it to my own thread?


BTW... I would have thought the cam specs you used in the '86 shortblock would = valve hitting piston.
 
1899 said:
My '93 ragtop went mid 12's @119 on radials...and it was a *gag* AOD *gag*. Mild Crower cam, Gt-40 heads, 1 1/2" shorties, Cobra intake, and 8.5psi of boost @ 6000rpm. Also had a shift kit and B&M 2200rpm stall T.C. My friend had the same set-up, except he used a Vortec vs. my Paxton, and he had a GT-40 intake instead of my cleaned up Cobra. He had a 5spd coupe and on slicks ran low 11.20's @ 124, which isn't half shabby.

Victor Jr with an 830 carb and a solid cam? That may as well be track only, and there is no way on earth you will make more power than a similarly (track set up) equiped blown 306". Skip the crap with the useless (IMHO) 347". A Novi 2000 with Twisted Wedge R heads and the right cam + exhaust with a stout bottom end and you'd need two of your 377 Windsors...one driving the front wheels and one driving the rear set to keep up!:p

Uhh...I like guns too. Is it a hijack if I do it to my own thread?


BTW... I would have thought the cam specs you used in the '86 shortblock would = valve hitting piston.
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Did you stay with the 2 piece shaft, or did you got to the Art carr one piece shaft and converter in the AOD?


You cant spin 306 cubes high enough to make enough power to make a fully ported wedge head work, let alone a R head. You need 20 lbs of boost to make something like that work well, or 12.5/1 or higher.
THere is such thing as too much intake and exhaust:D . = no torque below 6000 RPM:D


as for the 86 short,
F= Flycutting. :D
It relieves valve cuts into the stock pistons.
Most guys used 86 shorts. Flat top forged factory pistons, and not hyper pathetic"s.... they held up well, and a few local shops had tools that U could do the flycutting without disassembling the short.
With a 66 289 head(small chamber), you could allmost get 10.5/1 factory...




And BTW, you would be suprised how much power U can make out of that 830 set up even with an old X cam.
And I can do 377 CI with OEM parts (not all ford) and it has a better rod ratio than a 302...
 
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