Type 88 Sniper

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SQUAREHEAD1 said:
Just read through this whole thread took me about 45 minutes. I am totally totally blown away by how many people can get excited about a rifle like this. nothing - nothing proven just a bunch of hearsay, no one showing their pictures of their new rifles, no one showing anything that even remotely prooves that anyone has actually bought one, no proof of anything!! Even still, some people seem to be so excited about a $3000 rifle that should be 499.00. Just Absolutely amazing! Incredible.
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I am not sure how a rifle like this, even in China, could be produced for $499.

I'm not saying it is worth $3000, but even Cz 858's are assembled from surplus parts, don't include a FFP optic, are allegedly less accurate, are imported in far greater numbers, and still cost $650.

One of the owners I exchanged PM's with was happy to describe his experience in more detail.

Not meaning to start an argument, but I don't understand the expectation of such cheap firearms.

Ben
 
I own one of these rifles and considered my purchase money well spent. The determining factor really was the fun and uniqueness and I'm enjoying the challenge of attaining ever smaller MOA's as I get more familiar with the rifle; now down to a 2MOA and getting better. I will shortly start reloading for accuracy with higher weight bullets and expect to hit 1.5 - 1 MOA firing 5 round groups.

I wonder what the issue is with $3000 for a Chinese made rifle? I have see M4 LE versions being sold on this forum for $4000 or more and no one bats an eye. I doubt they will give 6 times the performance of a Norinco CQA at $700 so no rationale there. Could it be the rarity? I understand these LE versions are a few of ones manufactured in Canada. Excellent, I think there are a total of thirteen KBU-97A's (type 88 in 5.56 Nato) in the country, still not passing the rationale test.

Does it not really boil down to how many are available and how high is the demand. I am not calling into question what anyone pays for their firearms, to them it was worth it regardless of what I consider its value to be. (Note: I used the LE to CQA relationship to show the price difference, not to call into question what has been paid for it) But I would suggest to all those posting exaggerated amounts to imagine themselves to be the owner of said criticized firearm and consider how you would then read your post.

I hope I have not offended anyone for their choice or opinion; my objective with this post is to promote reflection on what you write before you hit the post button.
 
mspben said:
I am not sure how a rifle like this, even in China, could be produced for $499. I'm not saying it is worth $3000, but even Cz 858's are assembled from surplus parts, don't include a FFP optic, are allegedly less accurate, are imported in far greater numbers, and still cost $650.
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VZ58s are made for less, and have been marketed elsewhere, for $150. I'm not making inferences to this rifle, however.
 
Deckard said:
VZ58s are made for less, and have been marketed elsewhere, for $150. I'm not making inferences to this rifle, however.
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Damn it! My shop keep over charged me :p

Yeah I agree these 88's should not be that price. Some definite gouging going on there but some people are willing to pay so they'll continue to sell at these high prices.
 
It s funny to see folks who have never even handled the t88 commenting on how and why it should be made cheap.
I fired thr 5.8mm version of the t88 back in 2009 during a business trip. I can tell u that the t88 feels solid and the build is seamless.
Never seen the TI batch but i assume they r the same gun with 223 chamber
 
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j_brand said:
I own one of these rifles and considered my purchase money well spent. The determining factor really was the fun and uniqueness and I'm enjoying the challenge of attaining ever smaller MOA's as I get more familiar with the rifle; now down to a 2MOA and getting better. I will shortly start reloading for accuracy with higher weight bullets and expect to hit 1.5 - 1 MOA firing 5 round groups.

I wonder what the issue is with $3000 for a Chinese made rifle? I have see M4 LE versions being sold on this forum for $4000 or more and no one bats an eye. I doubt they will give 6 times the performance of a Norinco CQA at $700 so no rationale there. Could it be the rarity? I understand these LE versions are a few of ones manufactured in Canada. Excellent, I think there are a total of thirteen KBU-97A's (type 88 in 5.56 Nato) in the country, still not passing the rationale test.

Does it not really boil down to how many are available and how high is the demand. I am not calling into question what anyone pays for their firearms, to them it was worth it regardless of what I consider its value to be. (Note: I used the LE to CQA relationship to show the price difference, not to call into question what has been paid for it) But I would suggest to all those posting exaggerated amounts to imagine themselves to be the owner of said criticized firearm and consider how you would then read your post.

I hope I have not offended anyone for their choice or opinion; my objective with this post is to promote reflection on what you write before you hit the post button.
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Maybe I missed something here, but these are advertised as type 88 "sniper". Obviously sniper being the key word here. You said you are getting 2 moa with it? I sure hope its 2 moa at 500 yards+ otherwise I wouldn't consider this much of a sniper rifle. My cheap weatherby vanguard that cost under $400 does sub moa with factory ammo. Just sayin...
 
Hee hee hee hee… This thread is hilarious, it's just too much. I want to see one video, just ONE video online that shows anything about 'moa' accuracy for this rifle. I've looked very hard and can't find anything on YouTube... or anywhere else! someone show me a video of somebody shooting 1, or even 2moa outta this $3000 rifle. If it was even close there would be lots of mention across the world, no?! Plus, if anyone really has bought one of these recently why aren't you putting up video of it shooting at a target a hundred meters away SHOWING IT's abilities? If this rifle could do it, it would've been already on YouTube and everywhere else.
 
The proper naming for this rifle is DMR (Designated Marksman Rifle) an in-between you basic assault rifle and a sniper rifle. My $300 Remington 700 can also do .75MOA at 200m with factory ammo, but it's not nearly as much fun. Getting 1 - 2 MOA out of a Semi Automatic rifle is a challenge, consider it's designed to hit a man sized target at 800m. ( About 1.75 MOA for a 16" target).
 
SQUAREHEAD1 said:
Hee hee hee hee… This thread is hilarious, it's just too much. I want to see one video, just ONE video online that shows anything about 'moa' accuracy for this rifle. I've looked very hard and can't find anything on YouTube... or anywhere else! someone show me a video of somebody shooting 1, or even 2moa outta this $3000 rifle. If it was even close there would be lots of mention across the world, no?! Plus, if anyone really has bought one of these recently why aren't you putting up video of it shooting at a target a hundred meters away SHOWING IT's abilities? If this rifle could do it, it would've been already on YouTube and everywhere else.
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There are several reasons YouTube is not filled with videos of this rifle.

1. Few Canadian gun owners will shoot videos of themselves or their firearms and a lot less will post them on-line for all to see. Pictures within a forum are more likely.
2. With the US ban on Chinese firearms, there will be no videos from that source.
3. At $3000 each, people buying them are likely to be less interested in movie making (in some cases bragging of first with the newest toy) and more into shooting or owning.

And for you enjoyment, this is the best I have been able to do so far (1" grid, 2" bulls eye printed on 8 1/2" X 11" paper). I still think there is room for improvement with practice and tailored ammo and I have to move beyond 200m

PS if you are waiting to a video to prove to you that this is real, IT WILL NEVER COME FROM ME. That is not who I am.

Norinco_KBU97A_100m_20130520-1_zps3d59429d.jpg
 
j_brand said:
There are several reasons YouTube is not filled with videos of this rifle.

1. Few Canadian gun owners will shoot videos of themselves or their firearms and a lot less will post them on-line for all to see. Pictures within a forum are more likely.
2. With the US ban on Chinese firearms, there will be no videos from that source.
3. At $3000 each, people buying them are likely to be less interested in movie making (in some cases bragging of first with the newest toy) and more into shooting or owning.

And for you enjoyment, this is the best I have been able to do so far (1" grid, 2" bulls eye printed on 8 1/2" X 11" paper). I still think there is room for improvement with practice and tailored ammo and I have to move beyond 200m

PS if you are waiting to a video to prove to you that this is real, IT WILL NEVER COME FROM ME. That is not who I am.

Norinco_KBU97A_100m_20130520-1_zps3d59429d.jpg
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Try heavier grain bullets. The rifle is optimized for 62gr ammunition. We found in testing that bullet weights in their 60's performed the best. We were able to obtain repeatable 1-1.5 5 shot MOA groups from bipod with match 62 gr ammo.
 
Mikeschurman said:
Maybe I missed something here, but these are advertised as type 88 "sniper". Obviously sniper being the key word here. You said you are getting 2 moa with it? I sure hope its 2 moa at 500 yards+ otherwise I wouldn't consider this much of a sniper rifle. My cheap weatherby vanguard that cost under $400 does sub moa with factory ammo. Just sayin...
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Umm... 2 "MINUTES OF ARC" is the same at 100yd, 500yd or 2000yd. MOA works out to be approximately 1" of group variability per 100 yards of range. In other words, if it shoots a 10" group at 500 yards, it's a 2MOA rifle.

This is not often well understoob by people.

If a rifle shot 2" groups at 500 yards, it would be a 0.4MOA rifle.
 
Claven2 said:
Umm... 2 "MINUTES OF ARC" is the same at 100yd, 500yd or 2000yd. MOA works out to be approximately 1" of group variability per 100 yards of range. In other words, if it shoots a 10" group at 500 yards, it's a 2MOA rifle.

This is not often well understoob by people.

If a rifle shot 2" groups at 500 yards, it would be a 0.4MOA rifle.
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Good to know, thanks for clearing that up
 
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