What's keeping you out of Service Rifle?
- Thread starter TheGuy
- Start date
You don't need any "gear", other than a rifle and magazines ( Ear pro and Eye pro).
Hell, I had done SVC with a shopping bag multiple times. Dump all the magazines and ammo in a shopping bag, don't even need to wear a fancy chest rig or a load bearing vest if you don't want to.
Service rifle is a civilian run competition based of Military personal weapon tests. What soldiers need to do to qualify each year. Normally shoot from 100-300m. But up to 500m I seen in service rifle. Features things snap shooting, run down ( 400 to 300 and down and shoot each at ever line ) Using the basic standing, kneeling, prone position. Normally using a variation of a Issued weapon. AR15 is the most common used.
CQB close quarter battle. Close in stuff, snap shooting, hammer drills, bending in different positions to maintain cover etc, Normally shot close range. Its fun.
Thank you for the explanation. This does sound like it could be fun.
For an APRA member and part of the 'old boys' club of the Full bore rifle club to come on here and talk about what is needed to get SR more of a presence in local PRAs and the DCRA is beyond f@cking rich.
You must have Alzheimer's or something because despite one time shooting SR, you buried you f@cking head in the sand when the APRA was conspiring to kill the SR sport in Alberta.
Alberta sent a team to Connaught in what? 2005 - with the help of ex-serviceman, Sponsor, and Regimental brother James Cox with TSE.
(Who btw, did more in that year to advance SR in this province than did any of the backstabbing f@cksticks in the AFRA EVER did.)
Not only was I working on getting a team to the Nationals every year, but I was working on re-establishing connections with 41 Brigade. The CSRA was on the right path.
HOW ABOUT A PRA REINSTATE A FOUNDING DISCIPLINE AND THE FULLBORE GROUP SHARE "their" RANGE?
One more shameless plug for f-class and full-bore:
You guys have made it abundantly clear what you do and don't support.
Your 'priorities' as you put it was first and always foremost, to carve out a monopoly on range time / use and funding at the provincial level for your discipline.
You must have Alzheimer's or something because despite one time shooting SR, you buried you f@cking head in the sand when the APRA was conspiring to kill the SR sport in Alberta.
Alberta sent a team to Connaught in what? 2005 - with the help of ex-serviceman, Sponsor, and Regimental brother James Cox with TSE.
(Who btw, did more in that year to advance SR in this province than did any of the backstabbing f@cksticks in the AFRA EVER did.)
Not only was I working on getting a team to the Nationals every year, but I was working on re-establishing connections with 41 Brigade. The CSRA was on the right path.
I don't even know where to begin with this statement. I am truely gobsmacked...
HOW ABOUT A PRA REINSTATE A FOUNDING DISCIPLINE AND THE FULLBORE GROUP SHARE "their" RANGE?
One more shameless plug for f-class and full-bore:
You guys have made it abundantly clear what you do and don't support.
Your 'priorities' as you put it was first and always foremost, to carve out a monopoly on range time / use and funding at the provincial level for your discipline.
I do attend SR matches at the local, provincial and national level, but I've been doing it long enough to see what keeps a lot of newbies away.
Some comments on a few particularly good points that I have seen in this thread:
There was a lot of controversy and debate when the current "open" NSCC equipment rules were brought in. Previously, the rules were quite restrictive in that only "commonwealth"/"NATO" type firearms or AR's setup exactly like a C7 could be used. At the time, C68 was coming into force and it was hard to find an AR for sale at a store in Canada, let alone have much choice about the configuration. Elcans were and are expensive. I supported KC on the open rules, because I thought that would allow more newbies to shoot what they had or could afford. What actually happened was that top level shooters built custom guns optimised for SR, and there were still few newbies. Today you can get ARs in about any configuration from any number of suppliers, and from what I've seen, new shooters don't appear to be limited by money, they are limited by the fact that their handguard-mounted rail systems, forend grips, Eotech 1x red dot optics or unzeroed 24x monster scopes that magnify every breath and heartbeat on 10" barrel uppers combined with crappy 55gr ammo are not serving them well at 300m and beyond. It may not be a popular opinion, but I think that some equipment rules should be implemented to help guide new shooters with what is tried and true, and the right shoot "open" class should be earned after the Tyro shooter has at least shot a full season, built up their experience, learned the basics and is shooting "senior level" scores.
I still think this .22 match that KC put together was a good idea that just needed more refinement. Perhaps select a subset of matches and adjust the scoring rings and target sizes to allow the matches to be shot at one distance (such as 20-25m) and also so that you don't have to game it by using a super-accurate .22. I think that making it a "match", as opposed to a training COF also was part of the problem. This is the sort of thing that could be published on a website with downloadable targets and rules as a "challenge" just to get people shooting.
But when it comes to shooting, the DCRA can't even get its own PRA's on board to support SR, so how are we ever going to build up a network of local clubs? Perhaps putting together a list of local clubs that are already doing SR "Type" events and engaging them, even just for the purpose of networking and building awarness of what is going on at the provincial and national level might be a good start.
This is one of the best suggestions and probably the only way we can effect change. I know there are some high ranking people at the DCRA who support SR, although well intentioned, they have little direct experience with it, or have been out of the game for too long. Most of all, DCRA/PRA's need to be aware that they depend upon continuted use of military ranges to maintain their existence, and that only comes by providing a service of value to to the military, namely providing matches of current relevance to the military and by improving marksmanship skills of people in the recruitment stream, such as cadets and reservists.
Some comments on a few particularly good points that I have seen in this thread:
I've tried to get fellow gunowners to come out to a match but the fact that it is a "competition" scares them away. Plinking at the gun club is kind of boring and there are very few places other than a military range where the SR course of fire can be shot. PRA/DCRA has no SR practices. These are complicated matches with a steep learning curve, and because it is a competition - coaching is rarely allowed. I've seen newbies who do show up without mentoring get yelled at by range staff because they didn't know the rules and made mistakes, many never show up again.
The way I see it, Course Of Fire does drive equipment choice, but only for the dedicated core. For others the dissapoinment of failure when the wrong choices are made (or wrong online advice taken) drives them away.
There was a lot of controversy and debate when the current "open" NSCC equipment rules were brought in. Previously, the rules were quite restrictive in that only "commonwealth"/"NATO" type firearms or AR's setup exactly like a C7 could be used. At the time, C68 was coming into force and it was hard to find an AR for sale at a store in Canada, let alone have much choice about the configuration. Elcans were and are expensive. I supported KC on the open rules, because I thought that would allow more newbies to shoot what they had or could afford. What actually happened was that top level shooters built custom guns optimised for SR, and there were still few newbies. Today you can get ARs in about any configuration from any number of suppliers, and from what I've seen, new shooters don't appear to be limited by money, they are limited by the fact that their handguard-mounted rail systems, forend grips, Eotech 1x red dot optics or unzeroed 24x monster scopes that magnify every breath and heartbeat on 10" barrel uppers combined with crappy 55gr ammo are not serving them well at 300m and beyond. It may not be a popular opinion, but I think that some equipment rules should be implemented to help guide new shooters with what is tried and true, and the right shoot "open" class should be earned after the Tyro shooter has at least shot a full season, built up their experience, learned the basics and is shooting "senior level" scores.
I think the DCRA should develop and publish some sort of reduced or "qualifying" COF for SR that can be run at a local club and that teaches the rules of the range, introduces COF concepts (deliberate, snap, rapid, rundown) and firing positions used for SR so that it is not as steep a learning curve when the get to a full military range for an actual match. Perhaps something like a postal match that any club in Canada could participate in.
I learned how to shoot SR on a military indoor range using FN rifles with .22 sub-cal kits on reduced targets. Twice a week we did deliberates, snaps, rapids, and even "rundowns" that involved running a lap around the parade square before going into the range to pick up the rifle and shoot. When the spring came, I was shooting scores on the outdoor fullbore range that were as good as the senior shooters.
I still think this .22 match that KC put together was a good idea that just needed more refinement. Perhaps select a subset of matches and adjust the scoring rings and target sizes to allow the matches to be shot at one distance (such as 20-25m) and also so that you don't have to game it by using a super-accurate .22. I think that making it a "match", as opposed to a training COF also was part of the problem. This is the sort of thing that could be published on a website with downloadable targets and rules as a "challenge" just to get people shooting.
Thats exactly how you build and grow a sport and get more people involved. Why is Canada good at Olympic ice hockey? - Because there are little skating rinks in every small town where young and old alike play for the fun of it.
But when it comes to shooting, the DCRA can't even get its own PRA's on board to support SR, so how are we ever going to build up a network of local clubs? Perhaps putting together a list of local clubs that are already doing SR "Type" events and engaging them, even just for the purpose of networking and building awarness of what is going on at the provincial and national level might be a good start.
This is one of the best suggestions and probably the only way we can effect change. I know there are some high ranking people at the DCRA who support SR, although well intentioned, they have little direct experience with it, or have been out of the game for too long. Most of all, DCRA/PRA's need to be aware that they depend upon continuted use of military ranges to maintain their existence, and that only comes by providing a service of value to to the military, namely providing matches of current relevance to the military and by improving marksmanship skills of people in the recruitment stream, such as cadets and reservists.
EXACTLY!
I sit in these meetings and the topic of SR/NSCC comes up but there are very few in the room who understand it, and as such there is a huge reluctance to change anything, even if it's for the better! Having a voice at the table (whether they can regularly attend or not - there are things we can do to accommodate) will ensure that you are heard and that you can evolve things in the way that the SR community feels they should be.
After getting a pile of exposure to SR through NSCC and CAFSAC I'm looking forward to trying it out next year. Thanks to everyone who gave me some advice on what works/doesn't, and what I'll need to work on to make the matches fun.
Cheers,
Scott
I would become more involved if I knew people in the sport locally or could get more info on PRS, SR, CQB range days and events.
Being an American currently in Canada(with a less than public gun culture) it's difficult to even meet like minded gun enthusiasts.
Most like me aren't likely to show up at an event "cold" with no idea of CoF, cost, or even a mentor as a point of contact.
I have tried for 5+ years to get an opening into any club in Southern ON without success. So I am not going to get exposure at a lower level in order to meet shooters and advance to more "fun" events.
I don't lack experience(although rusty), I lack contacts I can depend on to "translate" the Canadian way of Ranges/CoF and help me get to full speed again.
I suspect many others are in my situation, willing, but don't who to hook up with or how.
Being an American currently in Canada(with a less than public gun culture) it's difficult to even meet like minded gun enthusiasts.
Most like me aren't likely to show up at an event "cold" with no idea of CoF, cost, or even a mentor as a point of contact.
I have tried for 5+ years to get an opening into any club in Southern ON without success. So I am not going to get exposure at a lower level in order to meet shooters and advance to more "fun" events.
I don't lack experience(although rusty), I lack contacts I can depend on to "translate" the Canadian way of Ranges/CoF and help me get to full speed again.
I suspect many others are in my situation, willing, but don't who to hook up with or how.
- Location
- WMU248 near Edmonton
Lets not side track this into an APRA not supporting SR thread...
I don't really want to moderate this thread.
so your warned.
I don't really want to moderate this thread.
so your warned.
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
NB.nagantsniper
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- northern nb
mosty time and work ( weekends ) keep me out ............any events in or around new brunswick?? located near bathurst nb..........
GTA and thanks for your help, I appreciate it and will look for the ORA stickies.
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Right at the top of the Service Rifle Forum. You can do a search for SR and CQB too and probably turn up some old but relevant discussions.
Yessir and I read thru the 1-12 matches, distances, positions, sighters and scored rounds and the total rounds needed at a minimum.
Sounds like a hoot and a good way to belittle oneself in front of hoards. Just my kind of sport. lol
I will do more reading to nail down safety, minimum mags required(5?), practical gear etc.
And again thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Sounds like more fun than a shoot house full of Candy Klear Out lol
I tried to get into service rifle but just found my personality and carefree, non operator attitude LOL didn't blend well with most service rifle guys I met. That and I live way too far from any decent sanctioned range/event these days.
I do have the luxury (when I'm home) of a kilometer deep , super flat crown land shooting spot and with the quad and range finder i get to challenge myself and have fun with it on my terms.
I do have the luxury (when I'm home) of a kilometer deep , super flat crown land shooting spot and with the quad and range finder i get to challenge myself and have fun with it on my terms.
That's weird man. I've never met a single person in the circles of SR that has any sort of attitude. Everyone helps everyone else out. We even lend out guns to noobs, and people that have theirs go down.
