X95, not all that great.

rhino62 said:
The Tavor has a long stroke gas piston and I wonder how this affects the overall accuracy of these rifles.
Click to expand...

The PWS AR-15 I recently sold was long stroke gas piston (non freefloated forend) and with Black Hills 77gr match it would shoot 1 moa groups. It's more about the quality of the barrel used.
 
I wonder why nobody is making slightly heavier aftermarket barrels for the Tavor and X95. Surely they would be able to sell them. I'd love to try one on my Tavor.
 
When the Russians required better accuracy with the Dragunov sniper rifle they switched to a short stroke gas piston and did not use the long stroke piston used with the Ak47. i think the majority of modern rifles that utilize a gas piston use a short stroke gas piston operating system and the Tavor is one on the few exceptions. I also wonder what the group sizes would be if a single round was loaded into the magazine and then fired and then this was repeated for the other four rounds in the group, also where the bullets crimped.
 
Last edited:
rhino62 said:
When the Russians required better accuracy with the Dragunov sniper rifle they switched to a short stroke gas piston and did not use the long stroke piston used with the Ak47. i think the majority of modern rifles that utilize a gas piston use a short stroke gas piston operating system and the Tavor is one on the few exceptions. I also wonder what the group sizes would be if a single round was loaded into the magazine and then fired and then this was repeated for the other four rounds in the group, also where the bullets crimped.
Click to expand...

Quality newer style AKs will often outshoot the X95 despite there not being any match ammo available in 5.45 and 7.62x39. A friend of mine's 5.45 Arsenal AK is good for 2.5" or less with surplus 7N6 ball and 1.7" or less with somewhat better ammo.

There's also the M+M M10X rifle , which can reportedly hit MOA with what passes for premium ammo in 7.62x39.

I don't think long stroke pistons are necessarily a barrier to good mechanical accuracy in of themselves.
 
kagia said:
People make a lot of stuff we don't need, but we still buy it.
Click to expand...

Very true, 90% of the crap people put on their pickup truck just to drive around in the city is completely useless but they think it looks cool. A quality barrel for the Tavor would be well over $500, how many do you really think they'd sell.
If people just realized that a 2-3 moa rifle is all you need for offhand action shooting which is what the Tavor and X95 were designed to do and just bought a more appropriate rifle for accuracy more people would be happier with their purchase. Shooting a semi auto bullpup accurately is very difficult, the short overall length makes it handle great during offhand shooting but multiplies every mistake the shooter makes when trying to shoot it for groups. My Desert Tech 338 Lapua was the same, it was capable of sub half moa groups but to actually do sub 3/4 moa was very difficult because you had to do everything right every time.


870P said:
Quality newer style AKs will often outshoot the X95 despite there not being any match ammo available in 5.45 and 7.62x39. A friend of mine's 5.45 Arsenal AK is good for 2.5" or less with surplus 7N6 ball and 1.7" or less with somewhat better ammo.

I don't think long stroke pistons are necessarily a barrier to good mechanical accuracy in of themselves.
Click to expand...

The bullpup configuration or more so the fact most people aren't as good of a shooter as they think they are has more to do with the poor accuracy than anything else. If the best a rifle can do is 1.5-2 moa and you put someone behind the trigger who is not very experienced and doesn't have good technique and consistency then you see 4-6 moa.
Mikethebike did a good ammo comparison and got about 1.5moa but I still haven't seen anyone else post pics of groups that good. That tells me that in the hands of an experienced shooter who will take the time to find ammo the rifle likes and takes his time during testing the rifle is capable of a lot more than most people are capable of utilizing.

Think of the difference between a bullpup and a regular rifle like this when it comes to the ease of shooting it accurately.
Take a 4 foot long stick and for the comparison to a regular rifle support it 6 inches from one end (muzzle) and then go to the other end (butt) and move it an inch to one side and note how much the opposite end of the stick moves. Going to be a very small movement. Now take the same stick and support it just past the center and move the end an inch to one side and note how much the opposite end moves. It's going to be much more than in the first example. Think back to when you were in school to levers and fulcrums.
This is further magnified when you cut a foot off the stick to mimic sliding the barrel back further in the stock like a bullpup rifle.
This is why bullpups are harder to shoot good groups with. In the right hands these rifles may be capable of more than we've seen so far but since most people do not have the shooting skills and fundamentals down well enough to actually be consistent and most of these are topped with a low magnification or red dot optic we're definitely not going to see the rifles true potential for accuracy.
 
Last edited:
cr5 said:
Very true, 90% of the crap people put on their pickup truck just to drive around in the city is completely useless but they think it looks cool. A quality barrel for the Tavor would be well over $500, how many do you really think they'd sell.
If people just realized that a 2-3 moa rifle is all you need for offhand action shooting which is what the Tavor and X95 were designed to do and just bought a more appropriate rifle for accuracy more people would be happier with their purchase. Shooting a semi auto bullpup accurately is very difficult, the short overall length makes it handle great during offhand shooting but multiplies every mistake the shooter makes when trying to shoot it for groups. My Desert Tech 338 Lapua was the same, it was capable of sub half moa groups but to actually do sub 3/4 moa was very difficult because you had to do everything right every time.




The bullpup configuration or more so the fact most people aren't as good of a shooter as they think they are has more to do with the poor accuracy than anything else. If the best a rifle can do is 1.5-2 moa and you put someone behind the trigger who is not very experienced and doesn't have good technique and consistency then you see 4-6 moa.
Mikethebike did a good ammo comparison and got about 1.5moa but I still haven't seen anyone else post pics of groups that good. That tells me that in the hands of an experienced shooter who will take the time to find ammo the rifle likes and takes his time during testing the rifle is capable of a lot more than most people are capable of utilizing.

Think of the difference between a bullpup and a regular rifle like this when it comes to the ease of shooting it accurately.
Take a 4 foot long stick and for the comparison to a regular rifle support it 6 inches from one end and then go to the other end and move it an inch to one side and note how much the opposite end of the stick moves. Going to be a very small movement. Now take the same stick and support it just past the center and move the end an inch to one side and not how much the opposite end moves. It's going to be much more than in the first example. Think back to when you were in school to levers and fulcrums.
This is further magnified when you cut a foot off the stick to mimic sliding the barrel back further in the stock like a bullpup rifle.
This is why bullpups are harder to shoot good groups with. In the right hands these rifles may be capable of more than we've seen so far but since most people do not hae the shooting skills and fundamentals down well enough to actually be consistent and most of these are topped with a low magnification or red dot optic we're definitely not going to see the rifles true potential for accuracy.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
With the Tar21 not the X95: I was pleasantly surprised with C77 ammo in mine. A bit of verticle dispersion but that might have been from using a front bag. I had some 1.5 moa, 5 round groups. But verticle dispersion would open other groups up a bit. Stock gen 1.5 trigger. One of the biggest issues I found was the violent release when you squeezed the trigger. Dry fire it and watch the crosshair jiggle. The podium bipod seems to be the most stable rest I've tried with the Tavor. Dry firing the crosshair stays perfectly still. I was sceptical but I think the podium is pretty neat. I have it on a new to me gem 2.5 that I'm looking forward to trying out.

77 IVI ammo accuracy sucked out of my Tavor. 55 American Eagle black box was good for plinking, CQB etc. 62-69 grain is where I'll be checking accuracy. Shoot slow, don't let the barrel heat up.

But let's be realistic, that's just for fun and interest. Off hand is where it's at for the Tavor. I've held onto my old Tavors but it's been hard not going for a X95. Wondering what they will do for a bipod on the X95. Maybe another podium style?
 
Last edited:
Epoxy7 said:
I was pleasantly surprised with C77 ammo in mine. A bit of verticle dispersion but that might have been from using a front bag. I had some 1.5 moa, 5 round groups. But verticle dispersion would open other groups up a bit. Stock gen 1.5 trigger. One of the biggest issues I found was the violent release when you squeezed the trigger. Dry fire it and watch the crosshair jiggle. The podium bipod seems to be the most stable rest I've tried with the Tavor. Dry firing the crosshair stays perfectly still. I was sceptical but I think the podium is pretty neat. I have it on a new to me gem 2.5 that I'm looking forward to trying out.

77 IVI ammo accuracy sucked out of my Tavor. 55 American Eagle black box was good for plinking, CQB etc. 62-69 grain is where I'll be checking accuracy. Shoot slow, don't let the barrel heat up.

But let's be realistic, that's just for fun and interest. Off hand is where it's at for the Tavor. I've held onto my old Tavors but it's been hard not going for a X95. Wondering what they will do for a bipod on the X95. Maybe another podium style?
Click to expand...

Need one of these
https://goo.gl/images/q1iqny
 
Epoxy7 said:
I was pleasantly surprised with C77 ammo in mine. A bit of verticle dispersion but that might have been from using a front bag. I had some 1.5 moa, 5 round groups. But verticle dispersion would open other groups up a bit. Stock gen 1.5 trigger. One of the biggest issues I found was the violent release when you squeezed the trigger. Dry fire it and watch the crosshair jiggle. The podium bipod seems to be the most stable rest I've tried with the Tavor. Dry firing the crosshair stays perfectly still. I was sceptical but I think the podium is pretty neat. I have it on a new to me gem 2.5 that I'm looking forward to trying out.

77 IVI ammo accuracy sucked out of my Tavor. 55 American Eagle black box was good for plinking, CQB etc. 62-69 grain is where I'll be checking accuracy. Shoot slow, don't let the barrel heat up.

But let's be realistic, that's just for fun and interest. Off hand is where it's at for the Tavor. I've held onto my old Tavors but it's been hard not going for a X95. Wondering what they will do for a bipod on the X95. Maybe another podium style?
Click to expand...

You may want to try 53 gr hornaby super performance. It grouped the best out of the x95, a long time tavor user uses it for varmint hunting seemed to be the best out of it so far.
Yes I know a x95 is not meant to be used for grouping.
 
Sasko31 said:
You may want to try 53 gr hornaby super performance. It grouped the best out of the x95, a long time tavor user uses it for varmint hunting seemed to be the best out of it so far.
Yes I know a x95 is not meant to be used for grouping.
Click to expand...

I'm still old school Tavor. I'm just living vicariously with this thread. My results are with a 1.5 and 2.5 Tavor. That being said, I'll give it a try. Thanks
 
Last edited:
Epoxy7 said:
With the Tar21 not the X95: I was pleasantly surprised with C77 ammo in mine. A bit of verticle dispersion but that might have been from using a front bag. I had some 1.5 moa, 5 round groups. But verticle dispersion would open other groups up a bit. Stock gen 1.5 trigger. One of the biggest issues I found was the violent release when you squeezed the trigger. Dry fire it and watch the crosshair jiggle. The podium bipod seems to be the most stable rest I've tried with the Tavor. Dry firing the crosshair stays perfectly still. I was sceptical but I think the podium is pretty neat. I have it on a new to me gem 2.5 that I'm looking forward to trying out.

77 IVI ammo accuracy sucked out of my Tavor. 55 American Eagle black box was good for plinking, CQB etc. 62-69 grain is where I'll be checking accuracy. Shoot slow, don't let the barrel heat up.

But let's be realistic, that's just for fun and interest. Off hand is where it's at for the Tavor. I've held onto my old Tavors but it's been hard not going for a X95. Wondering what they will do for a bipod on the X95. Maybe another podium style?
Click to expand...


Where did you get c77 ball?? I'd pay premium for a crate with stripper clipped c77 with the speed loader like I used to use in the CF
 
cr5 said:
The bullpup configuration or more so the fact most people aren't as good of a shooter as they think they are has more to do with the poor accuracy than anything else. If the best a rifle can do is 1.5-2 moa and you put someone behind the trigger who is not very experienced and doesn't have good technique and consistency then you see 4-6 moa.
Mikethebike did a good ammo comparison and got about 1.5moa but I still haven't seen anyone else post pics of groups that good. That tells me that in the hands of an experienced shooter who will take the time to find ammo the rifle likes and takes his time during testing the rifle is capable of a lot more than most people are capable of utilizing.
Click to expand...

LOL. So you're saying everyone who has shot the Tavor and claimed it shoots like sh!t are poor shots and the one guy that has posted photos of supposedly decent groups is the only one telling the truth? The only guy who has the marksmanship capabilities to use a bullpup effectively? This is really rich stuff.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom