X95, not all that great.

beltfed said:
LOL. So you're saying everyone who has shot the Tavor and claimed it shoots like sh!t are poor shots and the one guy that has posted photos of supposedly decent groups is the only one telling the truth? The only guy who has the marksmanship capabilities to use a bullpup effectively? This is really rich stuff.
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No, I'm saying a bullpup is not as easy to shoot as accurately as a regular rifle and that if someone is only seeing 6 moa from their Tavor it's probably more because of their shooting ability and ammo choice than the rifle. I know a Tavor is typically not going to shoot better than 2 moa with ammo it likes and the average is more likely 3-4 moa unless someone goes through the trouble of testing many types of ammo and also takes their time to ensure very consistent form from shot to shot and takes their time to keep the skinny little barrel from getting hot. Even the group posted by Mike at 1.5 moa probably isn't repeatable consistently with these rifles.
I'm also tired of people claiming that rifles are not accurate just because they can't produce consistent moa groups with it even though they've probably never shot a sub moa group in their life with any platform and after some questioning you find out they don't even know enough about shooting to understand that you're probably not going to see anywhere near 1 moa from most rifles if you're going to shoot cheap surplus ammo.

These are not overly accurate rifles but they're better than a lot of the posts in the recent threads about the X95. 2-3 inches at 25 yards is most likely shooter error not a problem with the rifle.

What size groups are you getting from your Tavor or X95?
 
cr5 said:
No, I'm saying a bullpup is not as easy to shoot as accurately as a regular rifle and that if someone is only seeing 6 moa from their Tavor it's probably more because of their shooting ability and ammo choice than the rifle. I know a Tavor is typically not going to shoot better than 2 moa with ammo it likes and the average is more likely 3-4 moa unless someone goes through the trouble of testing many types of ammo and also takes their time to ensure very consistent form from shot to shot and takes their time to keep the skinny little barrel from getting hot. Even the group posted by Mike at 1.5 moa probably isn't repeatable consistently with these rifles.
I'm also tired of people claiming that rifles are not accurate just because they can't produce consistent moa groups with it even though they've probably never shot a sub moa group in their life with any platform and after some questioning you find out they don't even know enough about shooting to understand that you're probably not going to see anywhere near 1 moa from most rifles if you're going to shoot cheap surplus ammo.

These are not overly accurate rifles but they're better than a lot of the posts in the recent threads about the X95. 2-3 inches at 25 yards is most likely shooter error not a problem with the rifle.

What size groups are you getting from your Tavor or X95?
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3moa and under is more than acceptable in a service rifle.
 
beltfed said:
LOL. So you're saying everyone who has shot the Tavor and claimed it shoots like sh!t are poor shots and the one guy that has posted photos of supposedly decent groups is the only one telling the truth? The only guy who has the marksmanship capabilities to use a bullpup effectively? This is really rich stuff.
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Beltfed, I admitted to getting the same size groups as mentioned using a red dot. I can also get 2" groups with my Tar21, using cheap PMC ammunition. I would not post such claims simply to defend the rifle, personally I would even be happy with 4" groups at 100M.
 
Man I love this thread. The good old MOA **** measuring :)

Instead of moaning about MOA get some training and suck less. :cool:
 
DILLIGAF said:
Man I love this thread. The good old MOA **** measuring :)

Instead of moaning about MOA get some training and suck less. :cool:
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Lol that is exactly why I am okay with 4moa or a bit more with a dot.. I don't even look for groups when I run my little course, it's all about centre mass. Oh and fun!
 
Well...

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ammo-review/page7?highlight=tavor+ammo+review
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...RESULTS-on-post-1?highlight=tavor+ammo+review

a whole lot of groups under 2 moa, and a whole lot more under 3 moa

I sure didnt post these groups for them to be called supposedly true, they are what they are, believe it or not.

maybe buy and try many types of good ammo = eventually get good groups

But my AR shoots way better groups
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...evised-Rules!?highlight=black+rifle+challenge

55 grain vmax very good in both rifles
 
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Sasko31 said:
You may want to try 53 gr hornaby super performance. It grouped the best out of the x95, a long time tavor user uses it for varmint hunting seemed to be the best out of it so far.
Yes I know a x95 is not meant to be used for grouping.
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hornaby? Think you mean Hornady.

Auggie D.
 
For all practical purposes, taking hours behind a bench to shoot groups with this kind of rifle is a bit meaningless.

If you can hit the deck and pump out 10 rounds in the prong position within 30 seconds, and have all rounds fall within a 12"X12" area at 300m, you and the rifle are already half way to being a rockstar. If you can keep everything within 18X18, you are more than adequate.

Shooting little groups at 100m is an obsession and contributes very little to practical marksmanship with this kind of rifle, once you are above a certain skill level.
 
John Rambo said:
Where did you get c77 ball?? I'd pay premium for a crate with stripper clipped c77 with the speed loader like I used to use in the CF
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Work related. One group uses 62 grain C77 while the rest of us are using 77 IVI. A trade was made for a couple of boxes. I happened to have a Tavor at the range while sighting in a C8, so that's how it went. Not something I have a supply of.
 
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cr5 said:
Need one of these
https://goo.gl/images/q1iqny
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Well, based on my experience with the regular Tavor and the RFB, those types of bipods don't work that great with these types of firearms. I suspect they put pressure on the barrel and cause minor shifts in POI. I found a front bag closest to the trigger guard, much like shooting the PE90 with the bag closest to the magwell, seemed to work the best. The traditional bipod doesn't seem to be a good match with these. After dry firing and checking out the podium bipod, I have some good hopes that this will be the ticket. Either way, I'm happy with how my Tavors shoot. When I put a scope on mine, I'm plinking parts of orange clays out at 100 from the bench with ease. That's with cheap 55 American Eagle. No complaints. Off hand it's just plain fun. I just like doing ammo tests and benching these things for fun. Then when I get bored, the M21 goes back on.

I'm guessing the X95 will have the same issues with a regular bipod.
 
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cr5 said:
...and that if someone is only seeing 6 moa from their Tavor it's probably more because of their shooting ability and ammo choice than the rifle....
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Ok - believe what you will.

For some perspective I was shooting low to mid 500s on the old NSCC matches 1-12 with a decent AR & ammo.
I could shoot an AR with irons in the low 400s.
The Tavor (gen 1.5) I tried with a scope and match ammo was high 200s - low 300s.

mikethebike said:
Well...

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ammo-review/page7?highlight=tavor+ammo+review
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...RESULTS-on-post-1?highlight=tavor+ammo+review

a whole lot of groups under 2 moa, and a whole lot more under 3 moa
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I'm glad you linked those threads. I can see how a few 4 and 5 round groups could give you that impression - but they are all over your targets with poi shift. Discounting the dispersion and poi shift isn't being honest with the performance of the rifle imho.

I wish I had kept photos of the groups I shot. They were 10 rounds and all fired on fig. 11s and 12s with a nightforce 2.5x10 power scope. Position was bagged prone, so it was completely solid. Seeing the groups walk around the target at 100m was enough for me to cut it loose.

greentips said:
For all practical purposes, taking hours behind a bench to shoot groups with this kind of rifle is a bit meaningless.

If you can hit the deck and pump out 10 rounds in the prong position within 30 seconds, and have all rounds fall within a 12"X12" area at 300m, you and the rifle are already half way to being a rockstar. If you can keep everything within 18X18, you are more than adequate.

Shooting little groups at 100m is an obsession and contributes very little to practical marksmanship with this kind of rifle, once you are above a certain skill level.
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Agreed, shooting groups really is an exercise in measuring the capabilities of the rifle/ammo - it isn't, and shouldn't be the start of shooting with this or really any rifle. But, I think a 12"x12" target @ 300m is a real stretch. At 500m you can kinda sorta make out mpi on a 4' screen with these things. Ymmv.
 
When your groups are spread with out any consistent pattern makes it difficult to zero.
Someone should sticky a post on what loads work best through the x95, may cut down some of the grumbling about this platform.
That and first time x95 shooters try avoiding a conventional fore end grip when initially zeroing. Do a modified grip with no pressure on fore end. Grip trigger guard.
Least ways that is so far what I have found.
 
Sticky????

When your groups are spread with out any consistent pattern makes it difficult to zero.
Someone should sticky a post on what loads work best through the x95, may cut down some of the grumbling about this platform.
That and first time x95 shooters try avoiding a conventional fore end grip when initially zeroing. Do a modified grip with no pressure on fore end. Grip trigger guard.
Least ways that is so far what I have found.
 
Makembite said:
I love the tavor, but really it's selling feature is it's compact size, reliability, and really, the fact that it's non restricted. Where it shines I find, is getting in and out of a vehicle, loading up quick and smashing rounds at a coyote/raccoon/pig etc. Other than that it's just a futuristic 100yd steel banger. And so far, I've found 62 grain bullets to be its most accurate round. Might just be that the 62 grain rounds I've bought were of higher quality.
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We are allowed to do this?.... do tell more..
 
beltfed said:
Agreed, shooting groups really is an exercise in measuring the capabilities of the rifle/ammo - it isn't, and shouldn't be the start of shooting with this or really any rifle. But, I think a 12"x12" target @ 300m is a real stretch. At 500m you can kinda sorta make out mpi on a 4' screen with these things. Ymmv.
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We are referring to the target box, not necessarily the entire area of the visible target.
 
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