90gr Berger VLD and the 223 - 500m Group 1 1/16"X 1/8" see post 357

Just noticing your load amounts with Varget and this is way more then I have been able to use. AND I have not gone that fast either.

Now I am not saying this is good or bad, just that load tuning may not allow you to go so hot.

The groups are showing ALOT of vertical dispersion at 100yds. Test at 300yds and beyond. The groups may fall apart due to this stringing.

But you are heading in the right direction. I would suspect that tuning in the 24ish gr range will yield the best results.

Good luck...

Jerry
 
Been busy doing alot of testing at 300 and 500m - even 900ish yds. Getting this powder and bullet figured out. Results continue to be excellent.

Have had to tweak my loads to account for rising ambient temp and fouling but I have a load that is able to shoot with very little vertical even when the bore has digested 80rds.

I am dry patching to remove the surface soot and the first shot is right on the target.

Shot out to 900ish yds has also proven very promising. This 'dirty' load drops them in there consistently with little vertical. Just have to learn how much to adjust for the winds and I will have a very competitive set up.

Today was 300m with a very strong tail wind that was switching back and forth. Est around 20 mph with even stronger gusts. Then big let offs to around 5 mph. it was alot of fun and when I got the winds right, into the V bull the bullet went.

Get it wrong and a very nice wide 4. Oh well.

Vertical was very low except for what was being caused by the tailwind. The load is proving to be very driveable and the bullets are landing where I am expecting.

Best part, the powder charges were dropped from a Redding BR measure. The ball powder is metering well enough I may not need to weigh charges....WOO HOOO.

Now to see what happens as temps go up.

Jerry
 
Hope to head back to the range today.
I am still not able to get decent results with the 90 Bergers and VV 550 or Varget. Groups around 1 moa @ 200m, or 1 moa @ 100m when the wind is too gusty, with mostly vertical strings. I have throated the barrel once again, and will continue to try to find the best coal.


I have been using some 77g Lapuas as a controll. They will shoot in the .25 moa range all day no matter what I seem to do.

Just have to find the node I guess. Best results with thr 90's so far has been with a .0020- .0030 jump?


Any suggestions?
29 inch 1/7 Shilen.
Lapua brass, Br4 primers, 25.8- 26.6g vv 550
 
Well, glad to see that the barrel is shooting superbly with the 77gr MK's. That was very smart to use an easy bullet to tune as a control. Take the worries of a bum barrel out of the equation.

I have set my OAL so that the start of the boattail is at the neck/shoulder junction. works out to 2.64 to 2.65" to the tip. Groups in the 2's are possible at 200yds with very little vertical.

When the throat was new, the bullet will just touch the lands removing a schnick of jiffy marker. I am not a fan of jamming into the lands.

I have not used V550 but my SWAG is that the load is hot - especially if your oal is much shorter. how are the speeds?

My leverolution load is 25.5gr and I am around 2875fps. Varget topped out 24.6gr. for 2800fps. I am using 450's so the BR4 loads would be a bit higher.

I think 550 is a bit slower then Varget but not that much.

With this bullet and cartridge, vertical is a sure sign that pressures are too high. I would start at 24.5gr and work up. I am guessing that loads in the high 24's and mid 25's is about right for the 550????

But load tuning will tell the tale. When are you at the accuracy node, the groups will clock and then expand rapidly. This window will happen within 0.2gr (why I load in 0.1gr increments). Pressure signs will be visible and you will toss shots vertical.

You need to use a very precise scale that will be consistently under a tenth gr for accuracy.

Chronie should show speeds around 2800+fps. If you get to or over 2900fps, you are hot and the results at long range will be dismal.

If still having trouble, give me a PM or email and I can help you work it out.

Pressures for my Lever loads have been perfect and it is drilling the V bull if I can get the winds right.

Also shooting a 7 twist Shilen 28" long.

Jerry
 
Try some lower charges working up in .2grn increments. Since most of my shooting this year will be short range, 300-600, I'm not looking for max velocity but best accuracy. I've found two loads that work great for the 90's 23.5 and 24.4grn of N150 with a .005" jump. I didn't want to lengthen the throat on my barrel too much as I still wanted to seat the 80grn SMK's deep enough to be able to chase the lands as the throat wears. My 80SMK load is 24.5grn of N150 and shows many 10 shot groups in the .2's and 3's at 100, as do the 90VLD loads. I can't wait to stretch these loads out and see how they perform at 600.

I don't have a chrony so I have no idea of velocity, not really concerned about it either if it continues to shoot like it has.

I also used neck sized and neck turned Lapua brass, BR4's for hot loads and 205M's (80SMK's and lower 90VLD charge) Shot out of a 30" 1-7" Shilen SM SS barrel chambered for .223 Rem match with a .252 neck. My COAL for the 90VLD's with the jump is 2.57" and the 80SMK with a .010"-.015" jump is approx. 2.485"
 
So happy the Shilen is working out for you.

Your loads are more in the ballpark that I was thinking of. The 223 DOES NOT respond to super high pressures. You end up with 3 ft vertical at 900ish yds - kind of fun actually to never know where the bullet will go next.

I think this is what has plagued other shooters complaining about vertical dispersion at long distances. Got a bit too hot and zingo, there she goes. But it is very predictable and repeatable so you just have to load properly to avoid it.

Bud, I would tune for the lowest amount of vertical. My guess is that the higher load will prove the most consistent even at longer distances. I always use the second node and it has never let me down.

Ron, I think you need to throttle back a bunch and see how things work out. N150 is very similar to 550 so these loads are a good indication of what is going on. With a full length throat, high 24's would be where I would expect given all the same as Buds set up. maybe into the 25's as suggested before.

A powder you may want to try if you want a full case is Superformance. This is a nice slow powder and you can get ALOT into the case. The 223 can will hold 29gr with ease (not a load but just how much goes in the hole)

But I don't think we will see speeds over 2900fps. Considering that SAAMI is likely around 2600fps, we are moving along nicely.

Nice to hear about other Shilens shooting these 90's so well.

It will be a very interesting year against the 308's. Shooting at 300m in very strong winds shows this bullet is flying superbly. Not as well as my 6.5 which is understandable but certainly better then the 22cal 75 and 80's I have enjoyed so much.

I am holding 1/2 a scoring ring more to get the same windage. It will take a bit of time to get used to the larger holds but no where near as bad as I had orig. thought.

In most cases, I am overcorrecting.

Jerry
 
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All weekend I was testing 24's of Varge since 25.2 was blowing my primers.

After finding an ok load 0.4 at 100 meters I tried it at 300. The wind was very strong - around 25 mph, but vertical was better at 300 than at 100.

Alex

18.jpg
 
Its certainly shooting flat. Did you get a chance to chrony that load Alex? I should be out this weekend testing my 80 grainers with a stiffer charge of 8208.
 
Nice group Alex. That wind is going to push anything around. Love to know how fast yours is going.

I would guess right at 2800fps. I figured the 25gr load would be hot. Blowing primers is a good sign for sure :)

As long as the accuracy stays stable, you'll have a lot of fun smacking that V bull.

Aren't those loaded bullets "###y"?

Jerry
 
An update. I have sent a few hundred rds downrange and continue to be impressed with the powder/bullet combo. If I can figure out the wind, the bullet will arrive in the V or 5 ring.

fouling is the main bugaboo and I have tried various methods to keep things shooting straight.

The powder is dirty and will foul out a barrel. As to number of shots, you may start to see vertical stringing or errant flyers after 30 to 40rds. WAY sooner then something like Varget or H4831SC.

I have tried dry patching and it does work. Do this every 20rds and you can keep the barrel going for a few 'cleanings' BUT eventually, it will foul out. A brush might be the trick but I don't like using brushes on match quality barrels. And because you can't be sure when it will crap out, I don't like it.

I am now Chem cleaning every 20rds (or number of shots of the relay). I am using conc ammonia janitorial cleaner and this cuts through carbon in a hurry. Any copper is zapped too (but there just isn't any in this Shilen).

I run 3 wet patches and a couple of dry ones. That's it. I am not bare metal cleaning. Just getting rid of the excess soot. Best part, so far, the first shot is right in the group. No need for foulers.

I am now retuning my load to account for a cleaner barrel and hope to get some shooting in shortly.

Normally, I don't clean until the end of a day so this will be added work BUT it will take 5 mins to complete so not a major hassle AND I will know that the barrel is always shooting at its peak.

The time I am saving using a powder measure is HUGE. From what my digi scale is telling me, I am around 0.08gr max variance from case to case( or +/- 0.04gr). Close enough.

This powder is definitely not for everyone but it will be what I use this season.

Time and Temp will tell how good this powder is. It just doesn't want to warm up so I still don't know how temp stable it is. But within the 10C I have been shooting in, POI and accuracy has not changed.

Jerry
 
Well, back from the Kamloops Sierra Match and learnt a whole lot.

Leverolution is not going to be the next wonder powder. It can shoot superbly BUT is temp sensitive.

with the near max loads I was using, performance early in the day was great but as the day heated up, flyers, vertical stringing and leaking primers were the norm. Dropped more points in this one match then in all the previous matches shot at that range. :)

It is now my practise powder. It meters so easily, making up a batch of practise ammo the night before is easy. Tune the load for the temps the next day and you are golden.

I didn't have any hot weather before the match so took a guess on what to use. Didn't drop down enough for the very hot temps.

Oh well, next time with a different powder. Varget is now about to get tested as I have some kicking around. H4350 has worked really well for several shooters so might give that a go but don't have any readily. 4007SSC is another to test but isn't listed as an extreme powder so not sure how well it will do.

Learnt alot this weekend which was the main goal of attending. The 90gr Bergers VLD's can shoot very well with high V count with a good load.

Very happy with my new rifle, stock and prototype bipod. The Vortex spotter I took a chance on worked really well too.

Except for the powder related mishaps, a most enjoyable match. And a great bunch of shooters.

Jerry
 
IMG_3947.jpg


Well, it looks like Varget is going to work out just fine with this Bullet and Barrel. Confirmed at 100yds today with some cool and gusty winds. These 4rds were shot between gusts.

The load also shot great at 300 and 500m. AND in 30C heat. Will do some testing out to 1000yds shortly.

IMG_3950.jpg


Some 3rds groups using new brass to find a fireforming load and still be able to practise. Looks like 0.1gr less will do the trick with this batch of brass.

The barrel has digested just under 1800rds and these groups were shot without cleaning the bore with 95rds fired. I am liking this for a competition set up.

The new prototype bipod is working out great but refinements are still planned.

Hope to get some positive match results in the coming events.

Very excited about the possibilities of this load, bullet and rifle.

Jerry
 
Was practising today at 500m in light gusty twitchy winds. The stuff that drives you insane chasing your tail. Got some good results. Then WTF???

Was testing clean bore shots and had 4 rds left. The wind went absolutely dead. Felt like it was a vacuum, it was so still.

First cold bore was pretty close to dead center. Next shot went a bit high, held a bit lower and it went low. Final shot when next to the 2nd shot. Light mirage may have helped in the vertical.

Group was a very nice 1 7/16" tall by 1/4" wide - told you there was no wind. Looks awesome and sure wish I had a bit more ammo. The winds returned soon after but for those few minutes, I bet 1" would have been possible.

Best part is this group is on 'film'. I will have to edit but the group was captured on my digi cam.

:)

I guess I am out of excuses......Will post pics shortly.

Jerry
 
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