Would it help the weight any if they made a version with a 14" handguard, just enough to protect the gas block, with the barrel narrowing to a pencil profile beyond that? You could the throw a fake-can style suppressor on it for looks. People could also purchase a registered 14" version in this config in Canada or U.S. pistol/SBR with 1913 stock interface, or 16" non-SBR rifle for the U.S.
The Templar Thread, 5.56 by Crusader Arms / Spectre LTD
- Thread starter Ustauk
- Start date
The thickness of the monolithic Handguard has already been shaved down as much as the designers thought prudent, so cutting it back a few inches would likely save grams rather than ounces. Turning down the steel Barrel forward of the Gas Block could save more substantial weight, but at the risk of degrading the currently excellent accuracy.
I think that Fluting of the entire Barrel length is the answer for weight reduction in conjunction with hollowing/recessing the sides of the Bolt Carrier and removing the Steel Reinforcing Plate on the Left side of the Upper Receiver. Fluting not only reduces weight, it also has the benefits of:
- Maintaining the original Barrel rigidity, and
- Increasing the surface area available for cooling, thus resulting in more rapid heat transfer to the atmosphere.
I think that Fluting of the entire Barrel length is the answer for weight reduction in conjunction with hollowing/recessing the sides of the Bolt Carrier and removing the Steel Reinforcing Plate on the Left side of the Upper Receiver. Fluting not only reduces weight, it also has the benefits of:
- Maintaining the original Barrel rigidity, and
- Increasing the surface area available for cooling, thus resulting in more rapid heat transfer to the atmosphere.
Last edited:
^
Thanks for the feedback!
I know you say machining will mean running a steel cam in an aluminum track shouldn't be an issue, but I can also understand Crusader overbuilding things to prevent this receiver shaving seen on the WK. The following fellow on Reddit noted this on his, for example, https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/yyv7fu/kodiak_180c_556_gen_1_long_term_review/. Still, the MCX Spear has a much smaller replaceable steel wear plate, so perhaps a less bulky steel or refined, well machined aluminum rail by will be an option in the Templar Mark 2.
Thanks for the feedback!
I know you say machining will mean running a steel cam in an aluminum track shouldn't be an issue, but I can also understand Crusader overbuilding things to prevent this receiver shaving seen on the WK. The following fellow on Reddit noted this on his, for example, https://www.reddit.com/r/canadaguns/comments/yyv7fu/kodiak_180c_556_gen_1_long_term_review/. Still, the MCX Spear has a much smaller replaceable steel wear plate, so perhaps a less bulky steel or refined, well machined aluminum rail by will be an option in the Templar Mark 2.
Well, after reading this thread, I'm convinced - if the Gen 2 version of this features an actual ACR stock, a fluted barrel, a shorter handguard and better QC around the finishing machining, I'll probably buy one. Thanks, everyone, for your various opinions.
Hi Fellas,
My Crusader/Templar just arrived in the mail today. I bought it directly from Crusader and it took about 2 weeks.
A little bit about me: I usually research every gun thoroughly before I buy it. I don't mind price as long as I feel I am getting good value for what I paid. While I like a well-made, pristine firearm as much as the next guy, function and reliability are more important to me.
I own a first generation WK 180C that I bought on a whim. It was the only 556/223 that I owned until today. It has been a good gun so far. No problems and a lot of fun to shoot. But I hold my breath every time I bring it to the range waiting for something to break. Definitely not a gun I would bet my life on.
So, I've been keeping my eyes and ears open for either a fix for the WK, or an "affordable" and reliable alternative.
The Templar came up one day and I did what I swore I would never do again. I ordered one based on limited information (hey, WW3 could happen any day now). Anyway, communication with Crusader was good. I received replies to my emails in less than an hour, sometimes within minutes, so no problems there.
So, my impressions about the rifle out of the box:
- fit and finish exceeded my expectations. Given what I read on this thread, and others, I was bracing for a scarred and marred rifle. But mine is nice and clean and there aren't any marks on it that I will lose sleep over (I literally went over it with a magnifying glass, looking for a reason to send it back);
- the gun is solid. No rattles, nor wiggles. Everything is tight.
- the stock - I thought for sure I would be looking for a replacement but this also exceed my expectations. The stock does not feel or look cheap as some have stated, and it is solid. Yes, it flops around when folded but that is not a concern for me.
- the weight - the gun is not as bulky as it looks in the pictures, but it's not a lightweight gun and it is nose-heavy. It makes my Type-81 feel light. But it is certainly manageable.
- the trigger - I upgraded to the Trigger-Tech trigger - I don't have much experience with aftermarket triggers, but this blew me away. Worth every penny!!
So, these are my initial impressions. is it the unicorn I've been waiting for? I don't know. Only time will tell. But so far, so good!
My Crusader/Templar just arrived in the mail today. I bought it directly from Crusader and it took about 2 weeks.
A little bit about me: I usually research every gun thoroughly before I buy it. I don't mind price as long as I feel I am getting good value for what I paid. While I like a well-made, pristine firearm as much as the next guy, function and reliability are more important to me.
I own a first generation WK 180C that I bought on a whim. It was the only 556/223 that I owned until today. It has been a good gun so far. No problems and a lot of fun to shoot. But I hold my breath every time I bring it to the range waiting for something to break. Definitely not a gun I would bet my life on.
So, I've been keeping my eyes and ears open for either a fix for the WK, or an "affordable" and reliable alternative.
The Templar came up one day and I did what I swore I would never do again. I ordered one based on limited information (hey, WW3 could happen any day now). Anyway, communication with Crusader was good. I received replies to my emails in less than an hour, sometimes within minutes, so no problems there.
So, my impressions about the rifle out of the box:
- fit and finish exceeded my expectations. Given what I read on this thread, and others, I was bracing for a scarred and marred rifle. But mine is nice and clean and there aren't any marks on it that I will lose sleep over (I literally went over it with a magnifying glass, looking for a reason to send it back);
- the gun is solid. No rattles, nor wiggles. Everything is tight.
- the stock - I thought for sure I would be looking for a replacement but this also exceed my expectations. The stock does not feel or look cheap as some have stated, and it is solid. Yes, it flops around when folded but that is not a concern for me.
- the weight - the gun is not as bulky as it looks in the pictures, but it's not a lightweight gun and it is nose-heavy. It makes my Type-81 feel light. But it is certainly manageable.
- the trigger - I upgraded to the Trigger-Tech trigger - I don't have much experience with aftermarket triggers, but this blew me away. Worth every penny!!
So, these are my initial impressions. is it the unicorn I've been waiting for? I don't know. Only time will tell. But so far, so good!
Last edited:
I think that everyone would like to see Magpul put their ACR Buttstock back into production, but according to "Steve" from Crusader Arms, that is not going to happen. That is why they were forced to partner with F5 in order to get as close as possible to the ACR Stock for the Templar. Folding to the Left is an advantage for the Templar, as the folded Buttstock does not obstruct the Ejection Port on the Right. The Magpul Buttstock folds to the Right, so may not be compatible with the Templar even if it were available. F5 manufactures the aluminim Adapter for the Templar as well, which is something that Magpul may not be willing to provide - assuming they would be willing to restart production of the discontinued Buttstock.
Congratulations on your new Templar! Now you just need to get it to the range so that you can enjoy the excellent accuracy (for a semi-auto sporting rifle) and reliability. I am glad to hear that in most repsects the Templar has exceeded your expectations. The more voices that chime in with positive views, the easier it becomes to convince people that I have been speaking the truth about the new rifle! It is tough to provide a balanced perspective in the face of nay-sayers like Grove and a handful of other haters of the domestic manufacturers. Not that it is my job to promote the Templar or any such thing. I just like to share good news when I find it, and much to my pleasant surprise the Templar is largely good news.
Have a good one!
I think all your suggestions would make for a better, lighter "gen 2". There's no downside other than machining time (and ergo cost) to using a fluted barrel. Hollowing/recessing the bolt carrier also makes a ton of sense (since it's huge), the only downside to doing so is removing some of the reciprocating mass that helps "slam" the bolt back into battery. I imagine this could be accounted for by using stiffer recoil springs and (possibly) adding an adjustable gas block to tune the whole gas system. I'd also rather see the steel reinforcing plate disappear and the cam pin pathway just be machined into the upper (it's always better to have less fasteners). That being said, I get their hesitance to do so and figure that a compromise would be to make that plate out of aluminium thereby negating the added weight but retaining the ability to swap the plate in the unlikely event thatf it does develop wear. The aluminium plate could then be offered to existing owners of the Sentinel/Templar to drop some weight.
The "sacrificial" aluminum Cam-Path Side-Plate makes excellent sense. Great idea!
It is possible to invert the Lever 180-degrees. It has a square profile on the end of the shaft that mates to a square hole in the Bolt-Hold-Open. They are secured together by a "C" Clip that you could just pop off to separate the Lever and the Hold-Over from each other. Flip the lever and reassemble. The Lever will hang down close to (but above) the Trigger area, which should make it easier to manipulate with the Left Trigger Finger.
@Grove : You do realize that on page 22, right after you pointed it out the blemishes on the pic, he replied back agreeing with you.
Bartok5, Page 22, second post, in response to your post.
"True, they have a ways to go regarding the final finish and fit of the parts. This is yet another reason why I call the Templar a Gen 2 WS-MCR - the QC on the fit and finish are near-identical between the WS-MCR and the Templar,"
Last edited:
Save your electrons - Grove doesn't care if it doesn't fit his particular narrative of crapping on the Canadian domestic firearms manufacturers so that they will "do better". Thanks for seeing the attempts to be honest and reasonable in my posts though!
Last edited:
I am beyond caring about what Turdeau wants. He gets fvck all of mine.
I eventually stripped the parts to use on other platforms. Now the receivers sit collecting dust.
My 18 firearms prohibbed under OIC 2020 are all intact, awaiting the day that they can be lawfully discharged again. If push comes to shove? I will elect to have them deactivated at goverrnment expense rather than have them destroyed (or re-purposed by the fvck-heads).
Last edited:
